Ask a Vet – Dr Evan Shaw
We ask Dr Evan Shaw your questions about cat health. Should we be feeding our cats more when we go catexploring? What about raw food? What about keeping your young kitten from attacking your older cat? Red flags we should keep an eye on our cats. We dive into flea and tick prevention in our cats. And so much more.
What we talk about
Is it important to switch around your cat’s food so that they get all the nutrients they need?
Should we give our cats more food on the days we go catexploring?
How to understand how much food you should be giving your kitty when treating them.
Dr Evan’s thoughts on raw feeding
How to know if your cat is getting enough water
How to give your cat water
How to stop a younger kitten from attacking an older cat
Why your cat may want to hide outside in the rain even though they can hide inside
Red flags we should keep an eye out for to take our cats to the vet
Panting in cats
The most common reasons for emergency vet visits for cats
What are Dr Evan’s thoughts on catexploring and can it have any downsides?
Dangers that people should be aware of while catexploring
Things we should keep an eye out for while catexploring in regards to fleas and ticks
Remembering your monthly flea and tick prevention treatment
How to check your cat for tick
Cat behaviour that can indicate that your cat has fleas or ticks
Advice for new cat owners
Most entertaining comment heard as a vet
What cats inspire Dr Evan
Product, service or program that has been a gamechanger for Dr Evan
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Guest – Dr Evan Shaw
Website & Fleamail - https://fleamail.com.au/
Instagram - @fleamail.com.au
Facebook – fleamail.com.au & Dr Evan Vet
Podcast mentioned
Being a beach cat with Nathan & Winnie
Drinking Fountain
Instagram accounts mentioned
Podcast Sponsor – Wee Kitty Eco Plant Litter by Rufus & Coco
The NEW Wee Kitty Eco Plant by Rufus & Coco is made from sustainable and naturally absorbent wheat and soy fibers. It's the natural litter for cats who care and the humans who love them. Reduce your carbon pawprint and make the switch - Head to https://www.weekittylitter.com to find a store near and for your chance to win a year's supply of kitty litter!
Music
Music for this episode was composed and performed by Kory McIntyre.
Cover art
The photo used for the cover art for Season 5 of Catexplorer Podcast is of @thegibsonchronicles
Transcript
Please note - this an automatic transcript, and as such may not be very accurate.
Hasara Lay 0:00
Bz just mentioned that we should be checking out cats for ticks. How do we do that? Dr Evan Shaw 0:03 So really easy like cats like you know, cats like to sit on your lap. So the best thing I say is do it symmetrically. Hasara Lay 0:12 Join us as we chat to amazing cat explorers and experts, learn from them, listen to their war stories, celebrate the wins, and laugh at the funny moments that have been a part of the journey. Welcome to the cat explorer podcast. I'm Hasara. Daniel Lay 0:33 And I'm Daniel. Hasara Lay 0:34 Before we jump in, we would love it if you could take a screenshot of your phone, or a photo of what you're doing or something silly that your kid is doing and upload it to Instagram stories and tag us at cat explorer community and our awesome guest at flea mail.com.au can't wait to see who's listening along. This episode is brought to you by the new week at eco plant lit up. The new week at eco plant by Rufus and kircher is made from sustainable and naturally absorbent wheat and soy fibers. It's the National linna for cats who care and the humans who love them. reduce your carbon footprint and make the switch head to www wiki.com to find a store near you, and for your chance to win a year's supply of kitty litter. Due to everything going on in the world at the moment in April 2020. It's understandable if you can't remember that a few weeks ago, we reached out to you asking what questions you'd love to ask about. Dr. Evan Shaw is an Australian veterinarian based in Brisbane, Australia. He has worked in a variety of fields but his passion is for wildlife. After graduating from James Cook University, he headed to Africa to work as a wildlife veterinarian and work with some of Africa's most iconic wildlife. since returning to Australia. He's worked in private practice and with the ASPCA. Dr. Evan is also the founder of flee, mail and online parasite prevention service that delivers its members a monthly protection to the dog when it's due. He's currently furthering he studies in animal forensics, and crime scene investigations at Sydney University. And we've got so many of your questions to ask him. Daniel Lay 2:14 Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Evan. Hey, younger guys. Good. Thank you. Were actually really excited to have you. Because a few weeks ago, members in our community submitted a few questions for us to ask you as part of our Ask event series. And every time we get a bet on, which is love to pick their brain because we have all these burning questions about cats. It's always a great opportunity when we do get a vet on to ask him some questions. And the first one will be around cat food. So the idea is or the The question is, is it important to switch around what our cat ate to get all the nutrients? Dr Evan Shaw 2:46 I generally say? No, because there's a few things that can happen with the cat. So because cats as most people know they're what's called an obligate carnival. So you know they have to eat meat. To get some of the essential amino acids, and if you switch around your food and stuff like that, but a lot of people don't realize that it's actually the meat in the food that causes a lot of issues. So things to do with allergies and stuff like that. And it also can give you no tummy upsets. By changing your cat's diet and things like that. I just tell everybody look, stick with like your cat likes, you can treat them you can change it every now and then. But there's no need to continuously change. If you buy your cat food from a veterinarian or a pet or a pet store, as long as it says nutritionally complete, which pretty much all of them are. That's like that's the most important thing and just to keep them up, keep them on the same sort of diet. You're just gonna have a lot less problems. I mean, there's also you know, there is a lot of people, you know, can sit there and say, oh, but you know, I like you know, I like to eat lots of different food. But cats and dogs, they don't really have the same You know human emotion when attached to food and stuff like that so like they do like different things but just figure out what they like and just try and keep them on a very similar diet you'll have a lot less problems. Hasara Lay 4:15 It's really interesting so on the days that we do more activity with our cats like when they go cat exploring and things like that, should we be giving them more food on those days? Dr Evan Shaw 4:25 Yes and no again. So a big problem with obesity in cats and stuff like that in Australia, however a lot of those cats that are going out exploring with their owners have a tendency to be you know, quite fit, and on and on and on on a pretty good diet as well. So like like a working dog, you know, they do need more food on days they work so like a little tiny bit of extra food, but people don't realize that a tiny bit of extra food to fill those blanks exercise calories. You talking about, you know, another taste thing, maybe a food so you don't you don't really need to go like, Oh, I gotta, you know, double up their food because I've been doing all this stuff. They're very efficient animal. So you know if they're if you want to give them like a little tiny bit extra yeah go for it but you don't really have to. Daniel Lay 5:17 Okay, so it's not actually very much I always had it in my head that and we've done this in the past sometimes where we've sort of given them a full home meal or something just because we are worried that they don't eat enough. So interesting to hear you say that. Yeah, they only need a little teaspoon. Yeah, Dr Evan Shaw 5:32 like one of the big problems we have like in the clinic is just the ridiculous amount of like overweight cats and dogs that come in. And the main thing is people don't weigh their food. And like when you read on the back of a packet or something like that, like give a third of a cup, such an arbitrary measurement, and one third of a cup to one person is completely different to the next person. But a weight is always the same. So my cat people like always see how much my cat gets fed and they go, Oh my god, she's like, how does she look normal, and you only give her that much food because I literally give her 12 grams for breakfast and 12 grams for dinner. That's it, which is about two teaspoons. But that is like doing all the math and stuff like that is her caloric intake for the day and all she needs. So yeah, you just you do get people like just a little small amount for a cat can mean like 20% extra calories, you know, in a day. And when you look at what's called the area of a cat, so that's basically how much food they need each day, based on their basal metabolic metabolic need is so for a normal act like a normal cat, you're looking at about 1.2 your area. For really active cat, you're looking at about 1.4 so it's a very small amount of difference in calories for more active have cats and dogs and things like that, like people think it's this huge thing, but it's just really not. Daniel Lay 7:05 So how would it work? If say, for example, when you go exploring, sometimes you tend to trick your cats and sort of entice them to do certain things or award them. How do you work that additional meals, or additional serving or extra teaspoon in given that you've already also treated them? Like, what's the impact of having giving them treats in terms of caloric intake. Dr Evan Shaw 7:26 So treats are generally really tasty, and then generally full of fat, which is fine. But what I do is, um, so a lot of the dog training that I do, or the cat training that I do, I'll go and weigh the daily food in the morning, and I'll put like half of it into a bag, and that's what I use to treat. So they're always getting the same amount of calories each day. And they're always getting the same sort of foods and stuff like that. So that way you don't really have to go or I gave it a couple of these things and I did this around. If you've just got if you've waited out at the start of the day and stuff Split, you know half of it into a bag when you go, you know how much they've gotten that day. So you don't have to worry about the math or anything like that, or, you know, worry about Oh, I think I gave it some of this up the bags empty, you go cool, and they've had their daily need. Hasara Lay 8:15 That's a really great plan. Um, so what are your thoughts on Raw feeding? Oh, Dr Evan Shaw 8:21 it is a very contentious issue. So, raw feed, if you do it at home yourself, there's a 99.99% chance you're doing it wrong. And your cat is not getting what they need or your dog is not getting what they need, or what you're actually doing can be quite dangerous. If you're getting your raw food from, like a car, like an online company that does delivery, there's quite a few of them nowadays. They're all balanced and complete, which is the really important thing, especially for cats because they really need a couple of those amino acids that they just cannot get from other things. And I mean, you get cats. that aren't getting taurine and things like that and they come in blind. But the big thing is for me, Campylobacter and salmonella are really big problems for people who role feed. The other big thing about doing raw food at home is people use human grade products. And don't realize that especially in Australia and the US, for example, and a lot of places in Europe as well. They have a lot of phosphorus in the soil and in the fertilizers they use. So you get you get a condition called hyperphosphatemia. And it basically makes all the calcium in their bones leach out. So they get like they get really really really unwell because there's about five times the phosphorus in like, human grade beef. Then there is in a lot of you know, the cat foods and dog foods and stuff. So it is quite a big problem there as well. Daniel Lay 9:53 Wow, I don't even know that. So on the other side of food is water. Yeah. How do we know if we categorize getting enough water. Dr Evan Shaw 10:01 So there is a, they did a really good study on this and I and I've seen this a hell of a lot in clinic as well. So about 90 to 95% of cancer dehydrated at all times. So the reason for this is they're actually a desert animal. That's what they, they sort of come from. So they I mean, they used to being in that city, that sort of situation. But the big thing is that like from an evolutionary standpoint, is cats heights still water? That's why a lot of people are like, you know, oh, you know, I especially still water that's been sitting there for a couple of hours. They can smell it they have about, they're about 100 times more sensitive on the nose than a dog is. So they've got an amazing sense of smell. And the reason we don't use them as sniffer like, in the same way as sniffer dog, you can use a sniffer dog because they just don't like to be trained or independent. So I always tell people, like you see a lot of stuff online like cats drinking from the It's because it's running water and they can smell the running water, they can smell it, it's fresh, and they can smell the ozone coming from the water as well which, which is another big thing. So if you one of the big things I tell people is buy a waterfall, so drink well, and a whole bunch of other companies sell these. And it's just a continuous flow system. And I always get phone calls and stuff like that from people ringing up going, I got one. My cat is drinking all day. I'm like, yeah, that's because it wants to and you get huge problems. So like, a ridiculous number of cats, especially in old age will die from kidney associated diseases. A lot of that has to do with their eating these really high caloric dry foods and not getting enough water. So their kidneys to just work and over time because they're dehydrated and stuff like that. So yeah, running water is key. So yeah, most of the time you just gotta say my cat is dehydrated. Hasara Lay 11:59 That's really interesting. So, we do have a water fountain and we also do have bowls as well because I can't seem to decide what day they like the fountain other days they don't. Dr Evan Shaw 12:08 Yeah, well, one of the things is like multiple water sources. A lot of people have the cat ball next to the kitty litter next to the food. And I don't know you but I don't really like drinking stuff next to my toilet. So yeah, there's like if you have you know, three or four balls around the house, that's that's generally going to be a lot better and change them every single day. Hasara Lay 12:33 So also change the water in the water fountain as well every day or Dr Evan Shaw 12:36 we'll know a lot of the water fountains are really good because they've got they've got a HIPAA filter on them. So that will actually filter out a lot of the water really well. So you don't really need I mean, you do need to clean and that's one of the big problems people have that I see is they just don't let you know leave them for like a month and just don't claim them and then like I pull out the pump and go look and they're like ah So I do say like once a week clean it, but it doesn't because it's flowing and it's running and it's got that HIPAA filter in there. A lot of them are a hell of a lot safer for the cat because of those things. And you can buy drops. For those for fans and stuff like that most of that's in pet stores have them that will actually clean the water, add fluoride, things like that. So yeah, Hasara Lay 13:22 oh, that's a really good point as well, we recently purchased some drops to life for their teeth as well. So very important to think about other stuff as well. So we're going to shift gears a little bit into look talking about cat behavior. So this is a question from one of our members in our community. How do you get a younger kid and who's around nine months old to stop wrestling, the older cats who might be between 16 to 18 years old. Dr Evan Shaw 13:47 Okay, well, this is this can be like a common thing. But playtime is a vital part of every cat's day. So from kittenhood all the way through to old age but I mean that is a significantly like an 18 or 19 Your old cat is a significantly older cat. Those cats are normally like my cat at the moment has gone deaf because she's getting older. So that can be sort of one of those things they just get scared their reaction times are a lot lower. But also you get a lot of indoor cats now as well so they do have a lot of pent up energy. So they need to get exercise and fulfill that need for socializing especially when they're a kitten. So yeah, big cats and you know feral cats can get this through hunting and simply like you know, existing with a social hierarchy, but for the average how cat house cats play is the only outlet. So I tell a lot of people just like a, you know, a dog at home, play with the cat play with the younger cat. And it will generally leave the other cat alone a fair bit more or if it just becomes a problem like you just have to separate it depends on it really depends on each city. You know, each situation is But the same same thing with any other animal training with food is a really is a really good way, you know, you should never ever, ever, ever punish any animal to train them. You always use positive reinforcement and use the thing called negative or what's called a negative punishment. So, a negative punishment is where you take something away from the cat when it's doing something you don't want it to do. So a positive punishment is where you know you're adding something like you know, hitting it or you know, anything like that way we're adding a stimulus, but save the cat's annoying. The big cat, take the big cat away, or take the little cat away and just continuously do it. Because they will start to figure out like, you know, are like, you know, I don't like it when that happens. I shouldn't do that. But it's not. It's not you know, like I said, it's not adding something that's gonna make them give them a stimulus sort of like I'm scared now. So yeah, negative punishment and positive reinforcement are the two only training methods that have been proven to work far more than was it negative reinforcement and positive punishment? Daniel Lay 16:13 So another question from the QA is, why would a cat want to hide outside in the rain even though they could hide inside? Dr Evan Shaw 16:20 Well, there's again, multitude of answers. One cat might just not like you or the house. It's generally not it but what a lot of people don't understand is like, you know, rain a lot of the time happens in the afternoon in the evening. Cats are a nocturnal animal. They like being outside and a lot of cats and people don't like cats hate water. Cats hate getting wet quickly. cats love rain. So you've probably noticed with your fountain digital cat stick its head under the like the way the fountain comes out, does your do cats ever stick their head under the water water Hasara Lay 17:00 contents a little bit smaller there. But they definitely do that with the tap. Dr Evan Shaw 17:04 Yes. So that's the thing. cats love water on their head, you'd be very, very surprised. And a lot of cats actually do really like water. They just want to do it on their time. And rain to a cat is actually a wonderful thing. Because, again, desert animal the smell of rain is that's a time of plenty for them. So they like to be out in the rain going like because they all that ozone and everything is sort of coming down with the lightning and everything like that. You get to get a big burst of ozone with lightning. So they love being outside and having the splashing on their head like the spotting on their head because they're like, Ah, this is this is a time of plenty that's that's coming for me and this is all fresh water. And a lot of them are dehydrated. So yeah, they love it. Hasara Lay 17:49 That suddenly explains why Allah must always insist on going out in the rain. Dr Evan Shaw 17:53 Yeah, they love it. It's a lot to do with the smell. The rain and yeah, and Just the feeling of Oh, this is you know, this is freshwater this is, you know, yeah. When I, when the ancestors were in the desert, you know, never rains sort of things. So that was a time to go. Yes. Hasara Lay 18:11 Yeah, that definitely makes sense. So shifting gears again a little bit. Are there any red flags that we should keep an eye out for that mean that we should take our cats to the vet? Dr Evan Shaw 18:20 Yeah, there is like, cats are kinda like birds, they're really, really, really good at hiding problems. So if your cat disappears, is like, you know, a little bit like, if it's a little bit under the weather, it's generally like, there's something wrong. So if you like most people, they bring a bird into the vet and they go and like, Oh, my birds like, he looks sick. 99% of the time, it is way too late. Because a bird is really, really, really, really it's important for them when they're in the wild to never show weakness. Dogs are really different. They like to ham it up. They're really, really good. They're all about facial expressions with humans and stuff like that. And they understand very quickly that Oh, if I, you know, if I ham it up and look sorry, and I get a lot of attention. Cats, on the other hand will actually go and try and hide. Because in the wild if they're, you know, they're out, you know, they're gonna get eaten. So a lot of the times they'll go and hide, so there's a couple of things you can really look for. Yeah, if they disobey, they start looking listless. So, you know, like week, sort of thing. That's a really, really good time. Like to take your cat to the vet very quickly. Because they do go down very, very fast. Another big thing is when someone says, Oh, my, you know, my cat was running around and now he's panting. Cats should not pant open mouth breathing for a cat means I am ridiculously stressed. And whenever I say open mouth breathing, that's a huge sign of a get me to the vet really quickly, Hasara Lay 19:57 actually about panting so for example if we're, we've got like a really aggressive play happening with lumos he does tend to pat because because he's out of breath is that quite Dr Evan Shaw 20:08 normal? Look, I mean, if it's if they're having a big play and the it is a, a sign of like, this isn't for every cat at all, but for most cats open mouth breathing is a sign of major stress. Whether it be mental stress or physical stress, some cats that just you know, they just like playing a lot and they get really hot and they just keep playing and playing and playing and that open mouth breathe but yeah, it depends how long it lasts. But yeah, it's just one of those things where they're not they are like, you know, that is how they call themselves down. They don't you know, they're not like people and stuff with sweat, but because their surface area is completely different to a dog. Their heat exchange is quite different through their through their skin and for that's why you don't see cat panting very often at all, it's sort of like a read that sort of like this has gone down to a point where, like, they're doing everything to get that heat exchange going on. So, look, I mean, if it's, if it's a common occurrence with your cat, I wouldn't be super worried about it. And you know, they've been playing and stuff like that. And it can be, especially if they're a younger cat, it can be a not a stress response, but just just the response to a lot of stimulus, which is, you know, the playing and the fighting. So yeah, it's just one of those things. I really keep an eye on it. And as soon as you sort of see it start to happen, just separate them and let them calm down. Let them cool down. Hasara Lay 21:40 Yeah, definitely. I think with lumos he's panting is he? I think that's his realization that he's getting tired. He's not very good at controlling his excitement. Yeah, I'm younger. Now he's three years old by He's like, Dr Evan Shaw 21:53 Oh, yeah, that's a younger cat. Yeah. So any basically anything over the age of eight I say is a bit of an older cat, a three year old cat that's like a that's like a 25 year old. So, yeah, it's, it's, you know, that's that's like I said again, just, you know, just a play thing. Where are you based? Hasara Lay 22:15 in Sydney? Dr Evan Shaw 22:15 Yeah, it's a warm, you know, warm climate, stuff like that. So yeah, it's like, I wouldn't be super worried about that, especially if it's been something that happens regularly. But yeah, I would as soon as you see anything like that happen, just separate them. It should go away quite quickly. But if it continues, take them to the vet. Hasara Lay 22:36 Yeah, we usually only last a few seconds, but we usually use that as a sign. That's usually his first sign of he's getting tired. He like a cat will actually sit down but he will. That's his first sign. So we use that as a sign of Unknown Speaker 22:50 play times over. Yeah, cover just a Harley driven cat. Daniel Lay 22:56 So continuing what we're talking about before with reading flags and visits. What's the most common reasons for an emergency visit that you would see. Dr Evan Shaw 23:07 But for an emergency, like the most common reason people bring their cat in is actually parasite related things. It's the most common thing for anyone to go to the vet after my my dog or cat is unwell. Number two, by a huge way is something parasite related. Or like, My dog is scratching a lot, my cat is scratching a lot. But that wouldn't classify those as emergencies in emergency situations, a lot of them so a hell of a lot of them have to do with kidney disorders. Like the cats just crashed. So you have acute acute kidney disorder and chronic kidney disease. They're sort of like two big ones. Things like you know, hit by a car is you know, like right up there as well. But yeah, there's emergency wise, you know, tick paralysis. A lot of it, you know, like, we get my cat like, you know, my cat threw up and there's blood in it or my cat pose, and there's blood in it. But yeah, mainly, it's like, my cat is just really fluffy. Like it's very listless. Like she's not the normal cat. And that's where we see a lot of problems coming from because a lot of the time, it's like all this, you know, your cat's been hiding it from you. And because they're really good at hiding stuff, it's now actually progressed to a point where the cat is showing something. So I definitely say, you know, emergency situations that I see when someone brings their cat in, you know, I pick the cat up sort of thing. And it's just like, all floppy, I'm like, okay, we need to do something about this. And we need to put this on fluids immediately. Hasara Lay 24:38 Yeah, so I suppose the biggest takeaway for all of us is to make sure that we keep an eye on our cats and also understand their general behaviors as well. So if they suddenly are really quiet, Dr Evan Shaw 24:49 yeah, always interact with the cat. And if you see like, the big thing for a vet is they'll ask you, so. So when we're trying to diagnose things and trying to find a reason Or what is wrong with the cat? The number one thing will generally ask you is what changes have you seen? cats and dogs are huge animals of habit. So if you notice something different that's when you should you should you should start looking you know into something like you know I like the Cat Boy sleeps like my cat always does the same thing. She walks over here she gets on the cat does that she goes to the bathroom at about this time she walks upstairs, she sleeps on the veranda around here and stuff. But, you know, I only get worried about when I know it's you know, between like 11 and five. She's on the back veranda. And if I walk up there and go, where's the cat? Like, that's when I go like, Oh, I need to go find the cat and make sure that everything's you know, just make sure she's okay, because that's not normal. For her. That's not her normal behavior. So yeah, change is a big thing well ask about like, you know, and when we're trying to diagnose, we'll ask about what changes have gone into the house into the house. If you change their food. If you changed the parasite control? Have you changed? Have you got a new roommate? Do you have a new couch? Like any of these sorts of things, what changes has happened? That's changed their perception of their reality. So yeah, it's very important to notice change. So to spend time with your cat. And if you do see change, prick your ears up and, you know, give him like, you know, like, watch them sort of thing. Keep more attention on them. Daniel Lay 26:27 That's right, because they're generally creatures of habit and who best to notice those changes then the person who lives with them every day who interacts with them and who feeds them who gives them cuddles and cleans their kitty litter? Dr Evan Shaw 26:39 Yeah, that's why Yeah, like when like if you go to a human doctor, my brother hates it when I say things like this, because he's a pediatric surgeon. A lot of the times they'll they'll sit there and they'll go, you know, they'll put the stethoscope on. have a bit of a listen, you know, talk to you for like two minutes and you know, They can get a lot of information out of you. But you'll notice when you go to a vet clinic, a lot of it, you know, there's a lot of questions, because we're trying to, we're trying to we're trying to find out the story behind stuff. So yeah, it's just it is one of those things where it's like a lot of changes, and we're with. So this is my, my, this might sound a little sexist, but I'm a guy. So a lot of the times when a guy comes in with the cattle dog, a lot of the times they don't spend a lot of like, they're not really in tune with the pet as much as you know, the female partner or the female owner. So you'll get a guy coming in, and they'll have like the dog on a leash if they're lucky. And be like, you know, so what do you feed it, they'll be like, dog food, sort of stuff like that. But a female will walk in with the big binder full of everything that the cats on and the dogs on, right, and they're really, really well in tune. So I'll generally say who spends most of the time with the cat. And I'll talk to them because they know that havior and I know they know all those sorts of things. Hasara Lay 28:03 You can't see us But Daniel and I are cracking up laughing here. Dr Evan Shaw 28:07 It's It is really really common like the amount of times you like so what what dog 30 fading it? I don't know there's a dog on the box for its for its proceeded with automa wife does all that. So yeah, so it's it is just one of the things I said it sounds sexy, but it's just the reality of the situation. A lot of the times you guys just really are there like a faded dog food. And you know, what's parasite prevention? I don't know. I can't remember like, you know, like, do you remember the name of the brand starts with a like, okay, so advocate advantix advantage, Advil, this and they're like, well, there's a dog on the box. It says that's Falaise sort of thing. You're like, okay, so yeah. So it's it is one of those things where whoever's got the most amount of information. I mean, and then you know, you get guys who are just all about the dog or the cat. So yeah, I always thought the other really good thing is the kids. If there's kids in the house, kids are always playing with the cat vowel notice changes, so talk to the kids as well. Hasara Lay 29:10 That's a really good point. So this is something that was really interesting someone brought up in the community what do you what are your thoughts on how cat exploring affects your cat and D believe there are any downsides to cat exploring? Dr Evan Shaw 29:23 Look, the the positives far outweigh the negatives. It's just how good you are with them. Like you know, it's not a good idea to you know, go out with a cat if you don't do it a lot. And you know, don't have it on a leash and I get all these sorts of things. Oh, yeah. Cuz like it's gonna freak the cat out because they're, you know, creature of habit. So start small, small trips, small adventures, things like that. But at the end of the day, stimuli and environmental stimulus is always fun is generally fantastic for an animal. Like no one like I mean, some cats just want to lie on their No lie on there. Like my cat. She doesn't want to do anything but lie on her towel 23 hours a day. That's just the cat she is. But a lot of cats are no, no, like, I want to go out I want to hunt, I want to see things, I want to smell things because their nose is so attuned to stuff. So just getting them Outdoors is is really, really good for them. But you've just got to be smart about it. Like at the end of the day, like it's, you know, chasing a cat is a difficult thing. Like you see people at dog parks and stuff like that with dogs who just take off and stuff and that's, you know, cats 10 times worse than that. I mean, how many cats, you know, come when you call them. So yeah, it's just being smart about it. doing your research on it and stuff like that talking to other people who already do it with their cat. There's heaps of people on you know, Instagram and Facebook and stuff like that, who have cat cigarettes, you know, they do these sorts of sorts of things. So there are far more positives than there are negatives, but just be smart about it. Daniel Lay 30:59 Yeah, and It's just about tailoring it to your cat and their level of comfort and experience and your level of comfort and experience as well. So, like we've got people in our community he go stand up paddleboarding, water, whitewater rafting and all those sort of things with their cats. Hasara and I were terrible at stand up paddleboarding. We're not gonna put our cats in that position where we're gonna, we can't even do it ourselves. How are we gonna change that situation with that cats, but we will go to the pub, we'll go to a cafe with our cats and we'll go for a little hike. And that's, you know, a great, great experience and exploring right Romulus? Dr Evan Shaw 31:31 It's great stimulus for a cat but some cats just weren't like it. So just, you know, just be attuned to it. That's why I always say start small. You know, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. So don't Yeah, like so don't try and go like oh, I'm gonna go cat exploring with my cat and go on like a 10 k hike through the mountains and a camping trip with a cat. It's never been outside. Like those sorts of things. Like just you know, start with small stuff. Treat them a lot Pat them a lot while you're doing the first thing. So they're like, this is a very comfortable experience and enjoyable experience for me. But yeah, just don't like a lot of them, you know, like, we'll go out and you know, they'll take off and there's a lot of traffic around there's, there's a lot of predators. Like in Australia, Australia's, everyone knows how much Australia is just full of things like snakes and spiders, you know, all those things. So if you've got a cat that's been inside, you know, for most of its life, or something like that, it's not really going to understand what some of these things are. So yeah, so like, there's just you just got to be smart about it and do it slowly over a period of time. Daniel Lay 32:36 That's a good point you make and so you've listed quite a few surprising dangers for cats that we should be on the lookout for wild cat exploring. Did you have any others in mind that you think people need to be aware of? Dr Evan Shaw 32:47 Well, no, I mean, like a lot of people like you know, especially people who live in Australia know there's a lot of dangerous stuff out there. And in a lot of countries as well, like you know, they're a you know, there's there are a lot of snakes and No matter where you go unless you're in, you know, somewhere like New Zealand those sort of things. Everything's out there. Like there are predators out there like, you know, if you're in the states there's coyotes everywhere. There's, you know, there's in you know, in Europe and stuff, there's, you know, like things like, you know, you know, badges and yeah, there's just there's just a lot of stuff out there that you know, your cat might be Oh, look, that's like a fluffy thing. I'm gonna go sniff it and, you know, like, yeah, it's just, yeah, there's there are a lot of things but you know, it's not sort of scary, you know, stuff like that. But it's, it's just something just Just be aware that the world I mean, like when we go out into the world or out into the wild, we, you know, take a lot of sort of sub subconscious risk evaluation that goes on in your head. Because we know we've spent, you know, 20 years on the planet and learn a lot of things or 40 years on the planet and learn a lot of things and you We don't really think about stuff. But you know, if you've got like a one year old cat that's never been outside or been outside a couple of times, like they just don't have the experience. So slowly get them into it. That's all I can really say. Because there are there are a lot of things out there. But it's not to deter anyone, because there's a lot of there's way more positives in it than there are, you know, negatives Daniel Lay 34:21 definitely agree in that there is a lot of benefit to it. And at the same time, there are things to be just aware of, and doesn't mean that you never go out because we we as humans will experience a lot of the same dangers, like I mean, traffic is a is a danger to humans as much as it is to animals. And you know, the predators around that we're talking about in Australia, especially and in the US and so forth. Also danger to us as well as your cats. A couple other things I just want to sort of Dr Evan Shaw 34:45 point out so just one more point on that. Sorry. The other thing you got to remember is a cat is a predator. So just in Australia alone, 2 billion animals die every year because of cats. One and a half billion native animals die every year because of cats. So that they are a predator. That's what they do. That's not their fault. That's just what they are. So it is something else that you really have to concern yourself with is they are a danger to a lot of animals that are out there. So don't just let them you know, like run off on their own is because what they're going the first thing they're going to do is like I'm outdoors cool. One of my most important instincts is to hunt. So that we all know that you know, no one's cat is 99% of the time a fat cat. So they're all well fed and all that but they still have that I just want to hunt because it's exciting to me. So that is a huge thing that I do have to push on people is like, Don't let your cat out at night because it's gonna kill about six or seven animals a night you might not see him but it's gonna happen. So yeah, it is it is a danger to other animals as well because they are predator themselves and a very good one. Daniel Lay 36:02 Yeah, that's definitely right. And just on the other animals topic, I guess, just worth mentioning that dogs are obvious predator, I mean, you go get walking and hiking, there will be a dogs on the trail. So you just need to be mindful of that and manage that situation. And plants. So a lot of plants can be poisonous to cats. Yep. So it's mindful. And, you know, it's very good idea to keep an eye on what your plan is. So like a cat is eating. Yeah, when we're talking about plants, Dr Evan Shaw 36:30 basically when it comes to plants and stuff, so dogs are more, have more reaction to leaf plants. Cats have far more reactions to flowers. Don't let your cat sniff flowers. People like to take photos with you know their cats in flowers and stuff like that. And I just it just makes me cringe because pollen and things like that. They're the things that cause anaphylaxis in cats far more so than dogs. So yeah, dogs is more the leaf will cause the problem or it cats is the flower will generally cause the problem. So just keep them away from flowers. Like if you have lilies, for example, that's going to kill your cat. Let's see hates cats died from lilies because people bring them home. And they do grow in the wild and stuff like that. And cats like to smell things because, you know, that's what they're really good at it and they have these tiny little noses so chicks get straight in. And yes, ages can cause a lot of problems. Daniel Lay 37:29 That's such a sad case. Hasara Lay 37:32 after this break, Dr. Evans has all about fleas and ticks, its dangers, how to prevent it and how to tell if your cat's been bitten by fleas or ticks. I just wanted to take a moment of your time to say a big thank you to all the support you've been showing cat Explorer, being in the middle of the Cova 19 crisis is scary for any business. And that's definitely been the case for cat explore, as we've actually been thinking about a feature for a while. A team's really small consisting of one full time pass That's me. And one part time weekend night time passes. We work long hours to support our community. And even before the current crisis, we've been thinking about how to explore his future. And it's been a tad late. And we're really scared to share about this. He's CAD explorer has always been about year, and we didn't want to be a downer, especially right now. But we are so overwhelmed with the amount of support we receive for our new programs, the cat explorer password, and the cat explorer produces a few of you had already reached out offering to help. So we created the pest squad as an option to support cat explorer every week, or every month, however you there are different levels with different benefits, so you can choose the option that works for you. And if you love the cat explorer podcast, you can be a producer for next season starting in May by becoming a cat explore producer. Once again, there are a few different levels with a few different benefits. And it's just a one so because we know that works better for some people in our community. I'll put a link to these options in the episode description which you can access by hitting the podcasts cover up on whichever app you're listening to. And thank you so much for your support. Words really can't describe how grateful we are. And now back to our chat with Dr. Evan to hear all about protecting our kitties from fleas and ticks. Daniel Lay 39:14 Now, you mentioned pleasing ticks before. So for a lot of cat explorers, fleas and ticks are quite a concern because we often go hiking in forests or areas that may have fleas and ticks in nature. Is there anything we should be keeping an eye out for when cat exploring with regards to fleas and ticks? Dr Evan Shaw 39:29 Oh, look, there's there's a couple of myths about this that I like to point out. So the two biggest things I say is preventatives are key that's the number one thing number two, it says like to make sure they're up to date. And the two biggest things that I see in clinic is when people walk into the clinic and the cat's got some kind of parasite problem is they have two responses. Number one, I forgot Give it this month. I forgot I was due a week and a half ago and I forgot. I get that life happens. And it's just something that you do have to keep on top of and number two is, but it's not tick season. There is no tick season. That's a myth. That's a misnomer and stuff like that. They're always there. Or, you know, fleas and stuff like that. They're like, no, oh, but it's winter. You don't have to treat and winter. I'm like, no, it's really important to treat them all the time. preventatives are key. The number two thing is when you've gone out and done it, do a tick check and a flea check. Fleas aren't so much in the wild likes, you know, sort of in the mountains and stuff like that, if you're going out to those sorts of things, fleas are much more want to hang around, dirt around your home, that's where 95% of laser, but you know, worms are sort of more far more to do You know, dog parks and high traffic areas, ticks and lice. And mites are the big problem like when you're out in the wild. So I tell everyone that when you come home, everyone loves Patna cat, do a tick check all over your cat. And then most importantly, handed off to someone else and get them to do the same thing. Because two hands will check different things and feel different things and understand different things like so even in the vet clinic. I will do a check check on a cat or a dog and then I will hand it off to one of the nurses and they'll do the same two y's are always better than one. Hasara Lay 41:38 That's such a good point. I just wanted to jump back to what you're saying about how everyone like it's easy to forget to do the monthly flea tick, preventative. What we actually do is we've got a reminder, a monthly reoccurring reminder in our calendar. So we see that and we know yes, we need to do it. I won't lie there are there have been months we'll have to push it back a day or two but That reminder just makes it so much easier. Yeah, in terms of how these you just mentioned that we should be checking a cat's for ticks. How do we do that? Dr Evan Shaw 42:09 So really easy. like cats like you know, cats like to sit on your lap, said the best thing I say is do it symmetrically. So with both your hands like just put your cat on your knees, with it's like head on your knees and it's balm into your stomach, and just started as sad as its head scratching its head with both hands, both sides because you'll notice if there is anything there, if you're doing they would both sides of your cat both both hands should feel the same. And the best way to find if there's a difference is if one hand you feel something and the other hand you don't, there's probably something there. So just work symmetrically like down your cat chick that is underneath the collar especially and underneath their arms in the groin. But yeah, it's just one of those things. Just run your hands down and a lot of the time You'll feel a tick, you'll feel something different, like a lot of time, you know, it's just a pickle. But you'll notice that if you're doing both sides of the cat at the same time, far more than me just sitting there with her and just doing it with one hand. Daniel Lay 43:14 So related, are there any particular cat behaviors that we can look out for to tell that our cat's got ticks or fleas? Dr Evan Shaw 43:21 So, fleas, I mean, like you'll you'll notice scratching, a lot of cats get a condition called flea allergy dermatitis, which causes a problem just above their tail generally, like my cat gets sad. She literally needs one bite from a flea, and she is in all sorts. So and that is quite a common occurrence in cats nowadays. But when it comes to ticks, like in Australia and a few other countries around the world, as well, so like Germany and the US, there is paralysis tick, they are exceedingly dangerous to cats far more dangerous to dogs. Yes, but still very, very dangerous to cats. And what will happen with paralysis tick, the poison that's in this library glands affects the nervous system. But it starts at the back end and progresses to the front end. So you'll notice problems with it, like, you know, you'll notice that they're, they're backlit with their gait. So the way they walk their back, their back leg just seems a bit funny sort of thing or their tails a bit droopy or something like that. That's a really, really, really big signs to get your cat to the vet really, really quickly. Do a tick check and stuff like that on the way there but yeah, if you notice something happening in the back end and progressing forward, if your cat is me Our you'll notice a change in their meow. So that's one of the best ways we we figure it out in dogs is that buck changes again, it gets old Little bit later, like he's back and funny, a little bit high pitched sort of thing because that's their diaphragm going funny. And that's the big prop. That's what the thing that actually kills your dog or your cat is they go into respiratory arrest, like it just stops their diaphragm from working. So they stop breathing. So yeah, if you notice any change in their vocalization, that's a big thing, and anything, any sort of like any problem in their back end, that seems to progress. That's generally a bit a bit, you know, it's getting late now. Certainly not too late. But there's sort of the two big things to look for when it comes to ticks. Hasara Lay 45:39 paralysis, ticks can be quite scary. And I think one thing to remind people is because when I did a bit of research about paralysis sticks A while ago, because it's something that we're so used to in Australia, you just know that you have to make sure that that's something that you keep an eye out for and are surprised to hear that it's not the case all around the world. But I was also surprised to hear that there are certain areas in the US That has paralysis takes and a lot of our community do travel through these areas. So I can't remember exactly what they are because there's quite a few. But what I recommend is before you travel somewhere, especially if you're doing a road trip or something like that, just Google to see if there's paralysis takes or talk to your veterinarian to see if there's a any type of take or flee that you're concerned about and make sure that you're, you've got the right preventative medication for that as well. Dr Evan Shaw 46:26 Another big another big thing is like, I mean, in Australia, it's there is a huge amount of press and stuff like that, because it's 30s. How Heikal Silas, the Australian paralysis tick is by far, the most deadly, classic Australia. And it's and it is literally from the northern tip of Queensland and people. People look at the tick map. Like if you google tick map, Australia and they go like, Oh, it's only down like two I think it's all the maps only lakes entrance in Victoria, those maps are phenomenally old. There is paralysis taking Tasmania. That's how far it goes down and climate change has progressed this there are now hundreds of cases of paralysis taking Melbourne and delong. So it's one of those things I sit there and go, don't just google it on the map, talk to your vet. It's everywhere. The other big thing is in a lot of other countries, there's what we call it like zoonotic diseases, so diseases that are tick will give to your cat that you they can give to you. Big one, Lyme disease in the US, huge in the US. 300,000 people are diagnosed with Lyme disease each year in the US alone, and it's a tick borne virus. tick borne. I think it's a bacteria and it's a huge problem that'll make you sick for a very long time, especially your kids, and you can't and cats and dogs are the things that bring it in. It's a coyote, sort of It's a basically a coyote disease and a bear disease. But it's everywhere you go to South Africa or Europe is like they call it billary in South Africa because I do a fair bit of work over there and heaps of heaps of dogs and cats over there have it, but that's the BCR. So that's an intracellular parasite. And that is transferable to humans as well and makes people very, very sick. So it's really important just just give you give your cat and your dogs, the proper prevention. And you know, it's gonna make everything I prevention is 1000 times better than your cure. That's what I try and hammer into people so much by people don't realize like say, paralysis tick, a paralysis stick case in Australia. You can look at anywhere from like, you know, 2000 to $15,000 to fix that. And you know, you can give them you know, a $20 prevent preventative you know, or $15 preventive have each month and never have to worry about it. So there's Yeah, it's just one of those things where, yeah, prevention is so much better than the cure. Daniel Lay 49:08 So Dr. Evan, we're coming up towards the end of the podcast. And before we let you go, we want to go through our last four questions that we go through with every guest. But the first one is, what is one piece of advice that you would give to new cat owners? Dr Evan Shaw 49:22 So do your homework before you get one, go to a shelter? Don't buy them on, do not buy them online, go to a shelter. There's hundreds of thousands of cats out there that are perfectly fine and fantastic cats, especially like if you go to the RSP or something like that they going? They've all been through behavior tests. They've all been through health checks and everything like that. Daniel Lay 49:42 So what's been the most entertaining comment that someone said to you as a bit? Dr Evan Shaw 49:47 Oh, there's so many. I don't know, like how entertaining some of them are, but there's a hell of a lot where you just kind of sit there and go, Oh my god, but I guess the couple of the best ones. Someone bringing their dog in and being like, you know, just in a normal clinic and then I've had this happen on numerous occasions, turning around and they've like taken the pants off or something like that going, what do you think this is and like showing me like this giant boil on their, you know, on their bomb or something and I'm like, I'm not a doctor, I go see someone about Hasara Lay 50:21 I actually for a second, I thought you were talking about the dog wearing pants. Dr Evan Shaw 50:27 No, it's like literally all like turn around to the computer and be like, I'd be like, you know, oh, you have got this thing on my head. I'm like, you'll turn around and like finish showing it to you and you're like, dude, go see a doctor. That's not my job. But yeah, that's probably probably, you know, things like, I don't want to vaccinate my cat. I don't want it to get autism. And you're like, Oh my god, that is not that is not an animal problem. And that does that doesn't happen. And yeah, like it's, there's a lot there is a lot of a lot of it is predicated I read online and yeah, there's there's a lot of funny things, but also at the same time you kind of like, Oh my god, that's so dangerous. But look, there's there's hundreds of weird things, but the big one is Yeah. What do you think this is and just showing it? Hasara Lay 51:18 Yeah, I definitely wasn't expecting that. Dr Evan Shaw 51:21 Yeah. Oh, it happens. It also happens at dinner parties as well. So like, you'll be sitting there be like, Oh, yeah, I've got this thing like, yeah, and especially like when my when I'm with my brother, my brother's an emergency pediatrician. I'm a veterinarian. So a lot of people want to talk to you about their pets and their kids. So yeah, we hear so much. It's like sad. Some of it is hilarious. But yeah, everyone just wants everyone just wants to show me that problems because they think just because I've got a doctor in front of my name, that I know human medicine. A lot of it is, you know, down on human medicine, but at the same time, it's like not what we do. So yeah, pull your pants up and Hasara Lay 52:06 which cats inspire you and what are their social media handles? Dr Evan Shaw 52:11 Okay, well two of my really, really good friends have to have like the biggest Instagram accounts in Australia. So cat man two is probably one of my favorites. He's cat trainer. And his cats do fantastic things and they're all rescue cats, which is the big thing. These aren't, you know, thousand dollar $2,000 cats. They're all you know, they're all rescue cats and they are fantastic. Some of the tricks they can do a really really cool I think one of them holds the world record for longest skateboard. Yeah, there was you know, a couple weeks of arms today based on their on the Gold Coast and Nathan the beach cat. Nathan the beach cat just got a partner as well. So there's now two of them. But Nathan, the beach cat Like he's from Tweed Heads and spends like all day in the surf, Black Cat, absolute legend and just loves the water and will like go surfing and everything with designers say that easily my two favorites. Hasara Lay 53:12 Yeah love Nathan and Winnie they were on our podcast back. Yeah. Back in season two I believe what I'll do is I'll include a link to that in the show notes. And we were really lucky. I think I was really struggling not to squeal. But we met Dr. And bindi from cat mentor. Yeah, back in December last year, and I put up poor Rob Rob. I just like ran up to him. I was like, oh, like Unknown Speaker 53:39 he gets that a lot. Hasara Lay 53:42 Yeah, but he was, um, we're really impressed with how well he was. He was unloading his car and he was managing both cats so well. Dr Evan Shaw 53:49 What four or five now? So yeah, Hasara Lay 53:51 yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, so what product service a program has been a game changer for your cats or the cats that you treat. Dr Evan Shaw 53:59 So Number one well drink well is probably the most well known and international brand for water fountains. That is my number one thing that I try and push on to people is if they've got a cat or a dog is get a water fountain by a drink Well, they've got really good filters on them and everything like that and they last like mines lasted 15 years. So they're built to last. They're a fantastic thing. They're a small investment, but we know how important it is for humans to drink water. It's really really really important for your cats and dogs. So that's my number one thing is get a drink well fountain or get one of the fountains there's heaps of them online, but that's probably my most like I like that one the most. And in a selfish plug. My own thing is basically like you know, get get stuff delivered to your house. Like when they do You know, get you know your food, get your food delivered to your house, in the right portions, get your parasite asides delivered to your house because that'll help you remember, like, all those sorts of things. There's a lot of online reminders. There's a lot of online services now that take the job away from you. So yeah, just look them up. Daniel Lay 55:20 You're gonna give us the name of your own. So let's say you've Dr Evan Shaw 55:23 looked at it. I don't know. I know it's a shameless self plug. But yeah, I started so I had a I used to work when I went to the ASPCA. I saw a lot of cats and dogs coming in with you know, flea and tick problems 43,000 missions a month for parasite related diseases in Australia. So I basically went out there's got to be a way out there just to take this problem out of people's hands. So I created a company called flea male. So, play mail.com Today you basically so what we do is we deliver See your door exactly what your pet needs to prevent all the all the different parasites exactly when it's due. So when the big blue on blood gets there, it's all like, you know, each, each pack will have your own pet's name on it and exactly the treatment that they need that month. All the timing and stuff is done by us. And literally all you have to do is when the blue packet arrives, just give it to your pet. There's no remembering there's no calendars, there's no stickers, there's no text messages and stuff. It's just when the blue packet arrives, you just give it to your pet and you know that they're protected. Daniel Lay 56:34 Yeah. So you're combating basically some of those problems that we just spoke about where Yes, you know, when people say, I forgot to give it or Yeah, you know, how do I know it's safe and you know, suitable for my cat. So that female would go along with it. Yeah, Dr Evan Shaw 56:49 we're all vets. We're all vets and nurses and they're all packed by vets and nurses, HGH cat and dog gets their own custom plan. So it's based on your location. So you Know that everything's covered. So one of the big problems I see is people come in and go, Oh, my cats on this, and I go, Yeah, cool. So what are you doing about this parasite, this parasite, this parasite, and they go, but it's on perfecto. And I'm like, yeah, you need to read the fine print, it doesn't do this, this, this, this and this. There is no product in Australia that covers all parasites. There is no single product, you must give a combination. And a flea male is mainly in Australia at the moment, but you're looking to expand overseas as well, aren't you? Yeah, we've recently expanded to New Zealand as well. And our next stop will be doing Singapore. And then we're going to we're going to be launching next year in Europe. So France, Germany, and France, Germany, Spain, Italy and the UK. Hasara Lay 57:49 Awesome. So that will be in 2021. Dr Evan Shaw 57:51 Yes out of Yeah, like cheap cheap up and down or pet store yourself. Just get it delivered to your house by a vet. And yeah, it just makes everything ways. You just don't You don't have to wait it's all automated by us. And instead of going in spending you know 200 bucks on a, you know, a six pack of you know something and maybe not getting the right combinations, all those things sort of right. It's far cheaper. It's you know, like 20 bucks a month instead and it's delivered to your door. Hasara Lay 58:19 Definitely sounds awesome. So, Dr. Evan, thank you so much for joining us today. We've learned so much Where can we find you online? Dr Evan Shaw 58:29 So best places here flameout calm that I you, that's sort of my my website. I've recently just started kicking and screaming I know I've recently just started a like my own Facebook page, it's just Dr. Evan vet. But my bigger one is like you can find flameout com.au and flee mount New Zealand on Facebook as well. There's a lot of information there. It's you know, that's kind of like where I I do most of mine on my blogs and things like that, like my websites got blogs. But yeah, I really, I've only sort of like just started getting into now my own personal stuff now, Daniel Lay 59:11 because I have time. So we'll put those links and any other links from today's episode in the show notes available at cat explorer.com forward slash podcast. Thank you so much for listening today. Did you know that subscribing to this podcast really helps us it would help us rank on the podcast charts as an independent podcaster. He's really helped us get sponsors to continue this podcast for you. So it would mean the world to us if you could hit subscribe on your podcasting app. Or if you're listening on Spotify, hit follow. Thank you so much for being a part of the cat explorer community. That's it for today. We'll catch you next time. In the meantime, enjoy giving you a kitty the world