Nina is a blind cat who approaches each day with so much joy. She goes catexploring at the markets and in the forest. We ask her mum, Julia, about how to train a blind cat, How to adapt your home for a blind cat. We also learn about fostering neonatal & differently-abled cats.

What we talk about

• How Nina came into Julia’s life [1.52]

• About Nina’s brother, Edward, and his brain injury [3.40]

• About Nina [4.33]

• About Nina’s other siblings [6.35]

• Changes required at home to live with a blind cat [11.06]

• We don’t need to pity differently abled pets [13.20]

• Nina’s eye condition [17.20]

• Types of catexploring Nina does [19.29]

• How Nina was trained to be a catexplorer [20.00]

• The differences when training a blind cat [24.22]

• Different ways Julia enriches her other cats’ lives, who don’t enjoy catexploring [27.44]

• How Julia started fostering cats [29.40]

• Training for fostering cats [34.44]

• How Julia picked the rescue she works with [36.18]

• Advice for new catexplorers [41.08]

• Most entertaining comment heard while out and about with Nina [42.40]

• Catexplorers that inspire Julia [44.13]

• Product, service or program that has been a game changer for Nina [44.42]

How to leave a review

To find out how to leave a review see here: https://catexplorer.co/podcast-entries/how-to-leave-a-review-for-the-catexplorer-podcast

Catexplorer Community Facebook Group

Join the Catexplorer Community Facebook Group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/catexplorer.community/

Guest – Julia and Nina

Nina

Instagram - @ninatheblindcat

Facebook – Nina the blind cat

Julia

Instagram - @the.ethologist

Edward

Instagram - @edwardthespacebear

Training for fostering

Kitten Lady’s book – Tiny but Mighty

Kitten Lady’s free book – Orphan Kittens Booklet

Catexplorers that inspire Julia & Nina

@theadventuresoflumosandnox

@roxythe_kitty

Podcast Sponsor – Wee Kitty Eco Plant Litter by Rufus & Coco

The NEW Wee Kitty Eco Plant by Rufus & Coco is made from sustainable and naturally absorbent wheat and soy fibers. It's the natural litter for cats who care and the humans who love them. Reduce your carbon pawprint and make the switch - Head to https://www.weekittylitter.com to find a store near and for your chance to win a year's supply of kitty litter!

Music

Music for this episode was composed and performed by Kory McIntyre.

Cover art

The photo used for the cover art for Season 5 of Catexplorer Podcast is of @thegibsonchronicles

Transcript

Please note - this an automatic transcript, and as such may not be very accurate.

Barbara 0:00

took him out. We went about an hour north of where I live on the coast and he just jumped out of my car and just start running around and exploring everything. So I kind of knew at that point, this was a very adaptable cap to new environments. From there on. I just started taking him on my longer trips in my RV. I think the first one was a three day trip, and then it went to two weeks. I think the longest we've been out is three weeks. So he just whenever we go somewhere new he wants to check it out and sniff everything and explore everything and Hasara Lay 0:34 join us as we chat to amazing cat explorers and experts, learn from them, listen to their war stories, celebrate the wins and laugh at the funny moments that have been a part of the journey. Daniel Lay 0:54 Welcome to the cat explorer podcast. I'm Hasara Lay and I'm Daniel. We've got an exciting for you today, but before we jump in, we would like to know how you're listening to the cat explorer podcast. Perhaps you're commuting to work or walking your cat or relaxing at home with a cup of tea. Take a photo or a video what you're doing, upload it to your Instagram stories. tag us at cat explorer dot community and our amazing guests at Maverick talks and will be sharing our stories. Hasara Lay 1:23 This episode is brought to you by the new week at eco plant lit up the new weekly eco plant by Rufus and kircher is made from sustainable and naturally absorbent wheat and soy fibers. It's the National Center for cats who care and the humans who love them reduce your carbon footprint and make the switch head to www week ed.com. To find a store near you and for your chance to win a year supply of kitty litter. Today's review is from the wonderful Heidi de t super informative and cute I discovered this podcast a little while ago on social media. I've only been a cat mom for a while and have never had cats before. So I had no idea that it's even possible to explore the world with them. This podcast is really inspiring to me as it is opening up my world to so many possibilities. It also gives a lot of helpful information being someone that is right at the start of cat exploring and has a lot of questions and doubts. Thank you so much for the work you do. And Heidi, thank you so much for such a lovely review. We really do appreciate it. It would mean the world to us if everyone could leave a review for the cat explorer podcast. What we'll do is we'll include a link in the episode description so you can find out just how you do that. Thank you so much. Daniel Lay 2:43 If you're like us, you probably fantasize about getting our the feeding it out traveling with your cat, I think are being with the cat comes with its perks, but there's also things you need to do to prepare. So we're really excited to chat to Barbara today because she goes are being with a cat Maverick. Welcome to the podcast Barbara. Hi. Barbara 3:00 How are you guys here? We're going great. We'd love to hear a little bit about Maverick. How did he come into your life? So I got Maverick in September of 2016. He was at a Cat Rescue place locally here in California. And I had cats previously and hadn't had a cat for about six months. And I was really missing having a cat in my life. So I started looking for a cat at rescues, and the foster place the owner of the foster place. She told me about Maverick whose name was Wyatt at the time and mentioned that he might be a good match for me based on what I wrote when I applied for adopting a cat at the rescue place. And so he was being fostered four or five blocks for me it was kind of very close by so I went over to the foster moms and met Maverick who was a little kind of off putting it first to He was very shy. But after about 2030 minutes of me being there, he really started getting very affectionate and friendly, and very playful. And there was just something about him where I was kind of like yeah, I think I like this cat. So the lady told me to take him home for a few days and see if it was a good match. And within an hour of him being at my house, it was it was all set in stone. He was going to be my get. He was just, I don't know, we just clicked right away. So then I was trying to figure out what to name him. I asked him if he was very attached to the name Wyatt, and they said, No, so I started reading outlaw names for some reason I wanted an outlaw name like bandit or some. And it went through the list and when I said Maverick out loud, he me out at me, the only Navy me out to like I was reading the list. And so it stuck. He became a And he's been my cat since he was about six months old when I got him. That's such a cute story, especially how Daniel Lay 5:05 he chose his name. Unknown Speaker 5:07 Yeah. So Daniel Lay 5:08 you talked about Maverick being playful and you say, you know, you're looking at bandit names. Can you tell us a little bit more about his personality and what he's like, Barbara 5:16 he is very much a cat that needs to be an outdoor cat to some extent, he cannot stay cooped in inside. He wants to be outside he wants to run after things and climb up trees and explore it's it's very much in his nature to do so. But at the same time, he's also the lap cat so at night, he always comes in at night. I don't let him outside at night. He always lays in my lap and just needs to snuggle with me. He sleeps with me in my bed. He curls up next to me or between my legs. He just needs that human contact as well. So it's it's kind of great because I have the cat who wants to explore and go on adventures and then I have the cat who wants to be cute at home cuddly with you? Which to me is the best of both worlds. Hasara Lay 6:06 Yeah, it definitely is. So then what kind of cat exploring Do you do it my break. Barbara 6:11 I take him on all my trips. That's actually one of the things that I wanted was a cat that could go on trips and would be okay in an RV. And his personality just really worked for that the first time I took him out, we went about an hour north of where I live on the coast. And he just jumped out of my car and just start running around and exploring everything. So I kind of knew at that point, this was a very adaptable cat to new environments, or adaptive, I think would be a better word. And so from there on, I just started taking him on my longer trips in my RV. I think the first one was a three day trip. And then it went to two weeks. I think the longest we've been out is three weeks. Yeah, so he just whenever we go somewhere new, he wants to Check it out and sniff everything and explore everything and he adapted to a leash very quickly. Daniel Lay 7:06 So you mentioned the leash. How did you train him with the leash, Barbara 7:10 I literally put a harness on him when I first got him so you get used to the harness, which actually now has his tags and Bell and everything on him on it. He doesn't wear regular color. He just has a harness. It's an H style harness that has the two loops with the two bands between and the first time I put a leash on he kind of looked at me weird and plop down like most cats do. But then he started to walk and he saw that he could just walk with me on the leash and he it wasn't really that long. I didn't have to do much training with him. So you didn't have to use anything like traits or I suppose play he just kind of just knew that he could walk in it. He He did not need to do us any trades or anything. He really just I think for him being outside and walking was More important than anything so he just kind of went along with it I'm not sure he loved it at first but he didn't mind it so much and after I think the third time I put it on him it was as if it was normal. Hasara Lay 8:13 That's so awesome. It's so awesome that he adjusted so quickly. So then you guys do like you just mentioned you do so much Avi together. What is life like when you Avi with a cat? Is it any different being without a cat? Barbara 8:26 It is somewhat different in that I do have to take him in consideration of where I go or where I can take him and I have to make sure he's comfortable. So that entails not going to very dog heavy or very populated areas. Because that's too much stimulus for Maverick specifically, I think for other cats. Maybe that's okay, but he shies away from very loud noises and populated things. Probably because he was a rescue And from how he was born, I'm assuming, but other than that, I just have food for him in the RV. I make sure that he's comfortable. I make sure the temperature is good for him. And I have to take stops a few more times than normal. Just to make sure that either he and both him and I can move around a little bit get out of that driving mode. He doesn't like the driving part so much. I should be honest with that. He has to sit on my lap while I'm driving. He does not like being in his carrier strapped in. I think anytime it moves, he just jumps on my lap for security. So I have to adapt to that when I'm driving as well that he's there and that he is secure. That's understandable. So it Hasara Lay 9:49 just had a curiosity. What does he do to share that he's not happy in the car. Barbara 9:54 Oh, he's very vocal. He meows he gets like it. My face me knowing if he has to go to the bathroom, he he usually rests very comfortably he has learned how to sleep in my lap in every possible position. Even with his head like off my knees and looks like he's gonna fall off but he's completely like, like, stationary and good. But when he needs to go the bathroom or if he needs a break, he gets very vocal, he starts to get up, he gets very fidgety and he will just meowing at me very aggressively. So that's when I know we need to stop we need to take a break and let's take him out. To stop a little more frequently with him. I am about every two hours three is kind of the map. Daniel Lay 10:40 So then with the places you stop that what sort of places Would you stop that and where would what sort of places would you visit because you mentioned the places that you don't go to. Barbara 10:48 If it's a populated place where I want to see something I'll leave him inside the RV, and he's completely comfortable with that he has many places amongst the Arctic with inside the RV that have He has made kind of his normal spots. His sink is the bat of the not the bathroom. The kitchen sink is one of his favorite spots. He just curls up in it. If I'm in a place that doesn't have a lot of people, I've stopped at rest stops and taking him for walks. I have stopped him in woods, woodsy areas, next beaches, just a variety of places. Hasara Lay 11:26 That's awesome that he's so comfortable staying in the RV by himself. Is there anything that you've done to make the RV more cat friendly? Barbara 11:36 I used to carry a really big tall scratching post in the RV but he never used it. So I kind of took that out because of RV spaces really small so anything you could take out is better than putting it in. I have some of his toys inside. I have his cat bed inside. And I have two fans in side that our ceiling fans that go both directions. So I have one set that it sucks air in and the other one that it spits it out so I get this cross draft going in the RV so that keeps the RV really cool and, and keeps air flow going really well so that he never gets stuffy or hot inside was the ventilation, that custom modification was that part of the RV design. It did already have the two vents. I just added the fact that there was a fan. There's multiple brands that you can buy for Arby's and bands that do that and so I just upgraded Daniel Lay 12:38 okay, but pretty much you've set it up like your home where you've got kitty litter, you've got food, you've got no safe spaces for him. Pretty much I Barbara 12:44 don't have to do kitty litter. I toilet trained my toilet trained Maverick when I got him so he uses toilet. Hasara Lay 12:51 Let's dive into that. How did you do that? Barbara 12:53 So I heard about this kit called city kitty. That was on Shark Tank which is a public Mueller show here in the United States, a friend of mine told me about it that they trade their cat with it, and I did not want to litter box anymore. So I figured I would try it and it's only like 2030 bucks here 2030 US dollars. And so I ordered it and I tried it out and he just learned really quickly. I think he's just a really smart cat or he's just really goes along with the flow. I don't know. We can put it on your toilet. It's this like insert that you put on on the bull part of your toilet and you put literate in it. And then you put the toilet seat on top of it and so they learn to jump up on the toilet. And then it has these little holes in it that get like bigger and bigger. And so you just, they're already like pre corrugated, so you just have to like push them through. So you start with a little hole and then it gets bigger and they tell you like to try it for a week and then make it bigger. I think I did about every two weeks with him. And he had like one or two accidents during the training program which took About a month and a half, and by the end they get learned to jump on the sea and hover there but over the middle and just do their business and then you come home where you find that later and he flushed the toilet. It's really easy. Unknown Speaker 14:15 No litter. Hasara Lay 14:18 None of that cleaning up. That's really awesome. Yeah, it's, we've can say that doing a tour. It's just lumos is already a little challenged in the bathroom in the kitty litter. So we like we feel like you get really cranky with us, but Daniel Lay 14:30 we feel like they're probably set in their ways, unfortunately. Barbara 14:33 Yeah, they say to do it when they're really young. The younger the better because they get used to it quicker. Maverick was six months so he adapted fairly quick, but I hear some cats do resist it like they just will not jump up there and do it. But I think it's worth trying for the cost of the city kitty trading box. It's not that bad. And if your cat resists then okay you tried but I think there's a 5050 chance it'll work Daniel Lay 15:05 did you have much had ankle problems training memory during that time or did a pretty smooth process. Barbara 15:11 Overall it was pretty smooth. He had two accidents. The first few weeks that like week one and three from there on, it was fine. The RV toilet was a little challenging for him. It's smaller than a regular toilet. So the first time he went in the RV, he kind of missed the middle and and just got it on the seat but it was easy to clean. And then one time I forgot to leave the RV bathroom door open with the toilet seat up, which is what I do and I leave them in the RV. I opened the door and I leave the seat up. And one time I forgot I was in Portland on a road trip and I had been around downtown Oakland for Portland for about five hours. And I open RV door and you can smell the urine smell I like look at where the bathroom door is. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I left it closed. I forgot to open it. And poor Maverick is just on that kitchen counter. He's looking at me like the sad side is a very pungent smell. And so I start sniffing the floor trying to wear a bead and I can't find it and it just smells worse towards the back. So I walk to the back where the kitchen is. And he appeared in the sink. My cat is so smart that he found the second best place to pee in the RV. And so I just had to flush out the sink and clean it and smell dawn. It was amazing. Hasara Lay 16:37 That's kind of the kind of accident you want to happen. Exactly. Daniel Lay 16:42 The best of the worst situation. Barbara 16:44 Exactly. And he looks so tormented as if like, Oh, I'm so sorry. I peed here and I'm giving him like treats like Yeah, you did so good. Hasara Lay 16:55 That's funny. So you mentioned that you sometimes leave Maverick. In the Avi by himself and a question we often get asked by cat explorers who want to start our being is how long should they leave their cat in the RV by themselves? Do you have any conditions or formulas or anything that you follow to about leaving him in the RV by himself, Barbara 17:16 in general, I try not to leave him too long. If I am in a place where it's cool enough, it helps cuz then I could leave him longer if I need to. The main concern is heat and the temperature inside the vehicle. With the fam system I can keep it fairly regulated and cool even in summer warm months here, but I also want to make sure that he doesn't feel cooped up because it is a small space. So generally about every three to four hours I try to go back and give him time to run around. There has been some times at night where I have left longer, but I also have secured cameras in my RV that showed the temperature inside the RV through the app on your phone. So I can get notifications if like the temperature gets too warm inside. I could also turn the cameras on and check on him to make sure he's doing okay. So there's a lot of things that I've added like that to make it so that I can see how he's doing and make sure the temperature is good. Hasara Lay 18:23 Is that a particular app or is there a particular brand or something that people can use it? Barbara 18:31 I used a blink camera system vi Li nk and it's five cameras, amis think box. And then it works through internet and I have a an internet, portable Wi Fi system on my RV as well. So it's thanks to that to connect all the cameras. And then the app that comes you download the app that goes with the cameras and then you set them all up and they work really good. Except that night when it's dark, they don't work great at night. They do have a night version now though I just haven't invested in it yet. Okay, that sounds like it's amazing. It's Hasara Lay 19:11 so cool what we can do with technology now. Exactly. Barbara 19:13 Yeah, it's great. So, Hasara Lay 19:16 like, paint the picture for me. So you get to a location that you're going to, I suppose. Stop with the RV. What do you normally do what's like the first thing you do? And does Maverick? Do you have any routines that you follow with Maverick? Barbara 19:27 First thing that I do is I make sure that wherever I stop is safe for him to go outside before I let him outside. He always rushes to the door. So I have to hold him back and go out. Or I'll go out from the cab from the from the driver's seat out first just to check the surroundings. If it looks like it's a good place, then I let him out. First, I put the leash on him obviously and let him out. And I'll walk them around and we'll do Little routine walking around. Eventually, if I feel like it's a good place, I can tie him down to something. So I have a longer leash, where I like tie him to either the outside of the RV or to the door. And I just let him have some fun on his long, long leash while I'm cooking or things like that. And I'll check on him every so often. To make sure everything's good. Hasara Lay 20:26 Yeah, that makes sense. So how do you decide if a location is safe? Like, is there anything that you like? I have a list of things that I kind of do, I suppose intuitively now but is there anything that you think about? Barbara 20:40 Mainly population isn't very populated. If it's very populated, I can just leave him attached. He'll freak out or he'll jump back in the RV. The RV is like his safe zone. So if he ever feels unsafe, he right away jumps in. But if it's really populated, then I won't leave them tied. You know, by himself, I will only walk him on the leash and then bring him back in. And I'll sometimes leave the door open but the screen close so he can still see outside, if that's the situation. If it's a non populated area, like if I'm in the forest area or somewhere open, where it's, there's nobody around or can't hear anybody or see anybody. I'll give them more freedom to explore in his own. Daniel Lay 21:29 So with these locations and with with an RV, is there anything special or different you need to do like you're looking for powered sites like sites with water, do you need those criteria as well and then having to find somewhere which is cat friendly or not necessarily a dog friendly location. Barbara 21:47 I so there's two types of RV there's the people who go to RV parks or campgrounds they plug in or they get a site. And then there's the people who just find remote areas or places that they can overnight for a night while they're on the road that don't have any amenities. I'm the ladder I I dry camp is what they call it or boondocking I carry 20 gallons of water with me I have a black take a gray tank. The black take is your human waste and the great take is like water waste like your kitchen sink. So I'm self sufficient in the RV with everything. I don't need to plug in or or or any of that stuff. So I generally try to find more remote areas to overnight up whether it's a Intel in America, we have BLM land Bureau of Land Management, which is money that all the taxpayers pay for basically the money comes from taxpayers. And so you are allowed to camp on BLM land for up to 14 days without a permit? I believe. So if you find any US Forest service area or BLM land, you basically can stay so you can find little roads or dirt roads or places off the main roads and kind of find an area where you can stop. That's one thing that you can do. Some states are more RV friendly than others California it's kind of harder to find places to overnight but Oregon and Washington have a lot of places you can just stop and stay. I'm not quite sure if that answers your question fully. But it does it for me. It's kind of like rich and Willow from van kept me out. The kind of fun places in nature to stay. It's kind of the same for me. I try to find places like that. Every so often I am stuck in a city or something like that, where I don't have that ability to stay remote. And if I do that, I try to find a really quiet street or a dead end street or street next to a park. Something where we can still go for a walk. can get outside that he doesn't feel cooped up. That's mainly what I do. Hasara Lay 24:04 That makes sense. So the BLM BLM Am I saying that right? Yeah, yet that land is that normally cat friendly? Do they have any like rules in terms of what animals can go on that land? Barbara 24:14 To my knowledge? It's It's It's open area and there are no rules. I could be wrong. That's all good. I mean, for example, like national parks, you have to have your pets on leashes. And they only can be on the campgrounds. You can't just on the trails, you can't just let them roam for free. But I believe in BLM land and forest land, it's a little more open. You just have to make sure that there's no crazy wildlife that they're disturbing. And I have worried about bears in one place that I stayed in. So I was a little more skeptical of letting him out. Yeah, that makes sense. And the reason I ask is like, Hasara Lay 24:57 like we sometimes go on road trips, and I'm Like, oh, this is a really nice spot. It would be amazing if we had an RV and we could stop here. And then I turn around or look at the map, and I realized it's a national park. And in Australia, cats aren't allowed in national parks at all, at all. So please, I often wonder what it would be like if we were to do an RV and I think we would find it. Like, I know, I've written Willow do it. And they've got some great apps that they use to do it, but I think we might struggle. I always seem to pick that spot that I'm like, Oh, this is beautiful. It's really nice. I'd love to stay here and then No, it's not cat friendly. Is it dog friendly and not cat friendly? Or it's both? It depends. A lot of them. Just dog friendly. They say that even if your cats on a leash, it's not cat friendly because the local wildlife actually smell the cat and then it becomes makes them quite stressed. So they might stop reproducing and had that kind of impact on the ecosystem. Yeah, it's quite strict and those rules are there for a reason. Like we found out that a lot of the parks that We actually live near our actually wilderness reserve. So we can't take our kids there either. So it's just doing a lot of research or being open to having to go to another Park if you turn up and you see one of those signs. Well, that's that's been our experience anyway, Barbara 26:13 I have not seen any place that I've been to yet that has no cat rule. And generally if dogs are allowed, they have to allow cats I think because otherwise there be a lot of lawsuits I think in the United States you have to remember here everybody sees everybody for anything right? I mean, I personally don't but I would see cat owners if cats are not allowed and dogs were there would be like this whole like, well, that's you know, pet ism or something. They come up with something, saying that it's not fair. There is an app called pet last like Atlas, but pet lists at Las that's supposed to tell you where and we can and cannot take your attention. Or that where they show more pet friendly places versus not. I just recently downloaded I haven't used it much, but I kind of wonder if that would tell me. Hasara Lay 27:09 And there's also bring Fido as well, which I know is quite like quite often used by a community as well. I think that one is quite popular in terms of finding accommodation and businesses, but I was having a browse yesterday, I think I saw a POC on this. So there must be a few parks. Daniel Lay 27:25 So we've talked about some great experiences of being with your cat. Have you had any scary experiences while you've been RV or co exploring? Barbara 27:34 Yes, two times now. Both dog related, both not very good outcomes. The first time we went on a road trip was in February 20 2017. And I went to the central coast of California with Maverick and it was our last day And I was on our starting my route up north back to where I live. And we stopped in Morro Bay, and I saw this beautiful big beach and I took him out on a leash on it. And we were on the beach for about an hour or two. That picture that you have on your cat explorer stories of valve on the wood is taken there. And I was about to head back to the RV and there was a small fence open area and the fence that you had to get in and out from the parking area to the beach. And I was on my way out towards that hole in the fence or gap in the fence. It's intentionally there when a dog owner came in with two dogs right when I was about to go out. And I saw that his dogs were off the show. I warned him right away and I said I have a cat here on a leash. And he said oh my dogs hate cats and I said them put them on a leash. And he didn't listen to me. So his one dog came and it was maybe a 20 pound dog. It was a very big dog. And he saw Maverick and just went right for Maverick and Maverick tried to run away but he's on the lease so he only got so far. And so that turned into a really ugly situation with Maverick getting very, you know, fighting claws out. The dog owner just kind of stood there and did nothing. I try to grab Maverick, but when the claws are out, it's really hard to grab your cat that's going crazy. The dog finally backed up and his owner grabbed it. And I kind of ran off with math in the other direction. The whole thing didn't last very long, maybe two, three minutes, but it seemed like an eternity when it happened. So the dog owner moved away while he kept walking and I got Maverick far from everybody and he just started to calm down. So I picked him up And I figured I was waiting for the past to get clear to get to that area in the fence. And when I saw that nobody was around, I grabbed him. I picked him up and I walked really quickly through the fence. And right as I get through a big truck drives up with a dog in the back, and right away. So Maverick is looking over my shoulder, so he doesn't see the dog yet. And I yell to the dog and I said, is the dog secure? Like on a, you know, tie down? And the lady said, Yes. And I said, Good. So I knew the dog could come after man. So I started walking towards my RV, which was to the right and man then saw the dog over my shoulder as I turned a corner, and he instantly freaked out again, even though the dog wasn't even close. And he jumped on my head. So now I had all four of his paws, claws in my head, like I had one in my front, one on the side and two in the back. And he was just digging in his claws into my scalp and it just hurts so bad. So I just ran to RV, then open the door and got in and the minute I got in, he jumped off of me and hid under the bed and I was bleeding from where he got me really badly. And he so I got my first aid kit out and I started cleaning all my wounds and for Maverick just looked so distressed and then I had to drive home away and my head just hurts so bad. So that was experience number one. So from there on it was a lot more cautious about dog areas. And then this past January I went on a cat hike with the local Barea cat adventure club that we have here. And we there was like seven or eight cats. We were all off this right next to a path with all these trees and some of the cats were in the trees and Maverick and I were just chillin aside and the dog owner comes with two dogs off leash. These ones were really big dog So we warned him like, he was way down the path and we're like, we have cats here and the guys like, Oh, my dogs won't do anything. And we're like, I'm kind of already prepared from after freako. So I'm kind of block his view, but I'm closest to the path and I would have gone up the hill but it was all mud from the rain and I was slipping and sliding. And lo and behold, the dogs come and I'm like, trying to stop them to come near now Maverick and they kind of both go around to me and flank my cat. And Maverick freaked out again. And the dog owner didn't do anything again. So one of the cat owners pushed one of his dogs out of the way and then the dog owner got mad that they that he touched the dog. He said, Don't touch my dog. The cat owner friend of mine said, well, you're not doing anything and he finally like grabbed his dogs and got away Then I had like, held Maverick down at this point. So I had claw marks in my, in my hands from that. And I started bleeding profusely and then I let go of his leash and he went up a tree about 50 feet and stayed up there for three hours. Wow. Yeah, those were my two really bad dog experiences. So now, I bought a backpack so that if he is in that situation, I can grab him and put him in a backpack. Yeah. Hasara Lay 33:30 Yeah, the backpack really helps in those situations, I think um, yeah, like I hope is one of the big things that we're trying to do is we're trying to raise awareness of cat exploring and trying to educate dog owners to be conscious of cats and like cats aren't the only other animals that go exploring like we've bumped into ferrets. We've seen, like people have told me about turtles that they've seen while they've been added about one person saw a lizard on a harness as well. So Barbara 33:57 I've seen a register a very soon Rather, yeah, someone travels with their pet wrister that's really cool. See, Hasara Lay 34:05 like there's all these animals out there that it would really help if dog harness kept the dogs on leash where it says that they should be on leash. So exactly Oh, helped us in terms of in those situations, just pull your dog away if you can, like it's, um, it just really helps. Hi, everyone. Sorry, I'm just jumping in. Because we recorded this episode with Barbara back in August 2019. And since we recorded that episode, we not only recorded but also released an episode where we talked about all the things that you could say when you are in situations like this where you're interacting with dog owners who might not understand the situation you're in with your cat. So if you have concerns about that, I really do recommend you go listen to that episode. So it's called what to say when people aren't nice to you about cat exploring with Amanda seminoff. So all you need to do is just scroll through your podcasting app and under cat explorer podcast and you'll see it there or you can see it on our website as well. And I'll also include a link to it in the show notes for this one. And now back to our chat with Barbara. I don't know whether like you had this experience, like I find and Daniel always teases me about this because one of the things we say is that when you have a situation like that you need to stay calm, right? Do not stay. Daniels, like you need to calm down, calm down. Barbara 35:19 said something you struggle with as well. I stay fairly calm in that situation. I think my struggle is is I don't always know what to do. And this is the first cat I've had that does this exploring with me and does everything on a leash. So it's been a learning experience for me as well since since I've had them which has now been a little over three years. That first experience I wasn't prepared for. I had been on beaches with dogs prior to that, but the dogs kept their distance, or if they came close, they only came like 2030 yards close. So It wasn't too bad Maverick got a little poofy, but there was no confrontation. So I was not prepared for the confrontation part that first time and it was a learning experience for I think both Maverick and myself that this is what can happen if you're not prepared. Now from there on, I was much more cautious of where I take him and in dog proximity to him. And then I avoided having problems due to that with the cat hike that I was in in January, I just really didn't expect with eight cats there of Word Owner to be so laissez faire about it and just be like, Oh, it's gonna be okay. And and I figured that I would be able to handle the situation better and I did stay calm, and I did handle it better. I did get Maverick to not go as crazy and I was kind of holding him down and sheltering him from the dog. But I wasn't prepared enough with a backpack and and that's that what I learned from that one. So I did stay calm. It was more after the thing that's over when you start feeling the pain from the situation, in my case, the claw marks that everything kind of dissolves for me because that's when I break down. I'm good during the conflict, but then afterwards I have my like, breakdown where I cry and go this. Yeah, and then if they get up in a tree, that's a problem too, because they have to get out and he did not want to get out of the tree. Hasara Lay 37:33 So how did you get him out of the tree? Barbara 37:35 I had to call a Tree Service of all things. Yeah. And they climbed up a tree next to him and then once they got his height, he kind of looked at them like what are you doing? And he started coming down the tree fell, and then we there was you know, a cat owners there so we all kind of hope he still had his leash on him. So we were worried that You'll get tangled in the branches, but luckily it didn't. But yeah, that was a crazy situation. They cost me $350 Hmm. Hasara Lay 38:10 I think I'm fees. We did a discussion topic on climbing trees and everyone assumes that you call the fire department. That's what you see in the movies, right? But that's not what you're supposed to do. It's supposed to call the thing that called Arbor Barbara 38:22 offers, is it? Yeah, I might Hasara Lay 38:24 be butchering that. I'll put some links in in the show notes about that. But um, yeah, like, if you google them, there's some great ones. There's also a really great Instagram account about these two guys that that's what they do in their spare time. He's really it's my job. And in this spare time, they go around rescuing cats, and they've got some great footage of cats that are like up in a tree and how they rescue them and they take a photo just before they bring the cat down. So you see this cat in a tree like some of them are just sitting there watching the world like it's a beautiful view. Barbara 38:53 Yes. But remember, Maverick was pretty calm, and he was just chilling up there. He didn't like freak out anymore. will tell you one thing to bring with you and the situations as a blanket. If the cat falls, they can fall in the blanket. So there was four of us underneath the tree. During the time that the the arbor the tree climbers went up, it was one tree climber and the other guys were below but we held a blankets that in case Maverick freaked out and fell he would fall into the blanket. Hasara Lay 39:23 a pillow case is also a great option busy to tuck them in. So like I suppose you could get a pillowcase that's really really big and use it as both. You could call that a quilt. Barbara 39:36 Yeah, the blanket always comes with me now. I've been told by dog owners to have pepper spray with me because if a dog is coming at you at me or at Maverick and the owners not doing anything, I have every right to spray the dog or spray pepper spray in the air in front of it to get the dog to not come at me or my cat and I can Carrie wipes and a blanket. It's like my list gets longer and longer with each experience, but that's what happens. So then how does memory Hasara Lay 40:11 often react afterwards? Like, how about like in the hours afterwards and then also the next time that you go kept exploring? Barbara 40:18 I've been lucky he, he seems okay afterwards. He and I were both just a little shocked that day, and he was very clingy to me for the rest of the day where he wanted to be in my lap at the whole time. But from the next day, it seemed fine. We've gone on hikes and walks since and he's been fine. I think the only thing is now when he sees a dog. It's right away. Not good. All dogs are evil now because of two dogs. Hasara Lay 40:48 That's understandable. I I'd be like that too. If I if I had had that experience, Daniel Lay 40:54 it's a shame but given the experiences of the circumstances, that's what it is. Yeah. So We're coming up towards the end of our podcast and we're just going to jump into our first four questions now. And the first question is, what is one piece of advice you'd give to new cat explorers? Barbara 41:08 I suggest that they just go for it. Take, take them out, see how they do. Don't give up. Keep trying. If the cat adapts, take them on a bit of a longer journey out maybe for a few hours somewhere close by. find places that are cat friendly and not populated and bring the right supplies with you. Hasara Lay 41:36 Such great advice. What is the most entertaining comment someone has said to you while you've been out and about with Maverick. Barbara 41:43 I was at a Stonehenge replica in Washington state called Mary Hill. And I was walking Maverick way on the outskirts because there was these two big dogs in the middle and one of the dog owners ended up yelling across the way to me and said is that a cat there? And I said, Yes it is. He said, why would you bring a cat here? And I said, Why do you bring your dog here? And these two dogs are normal and I said, cats are normal. And he didn't like that. He said, My dog wants to eat your cat. And they said, well, then you should keep your dog in control, keep control of your dog. And then I think they finally got frustrated and they left. And once they left, I was able to bring Maverick inside Stonehenge. But I thought that was kind of funny that they think dogs are normal, but the caps are not normal. Hasara Lay 42:37 I think that's a common thought process. But I think it's also like people haven't really thought about it before as well. So that's their, that's how they respond is or this isn't normal, but then if they stopped and thought about it and realize why we do it, right. They kind of just got Um, oh, yeah, Barbara 42:56 okay. Generally people stop and are just impressed. My cats walking and doing things and everyone gets like, Oh, how cute. You know those kind of comments. I'm sure you get them too. Daniel Lay 43:08 Yeah. Oh definitely. So talking about cute cat explorers, which can explorers inspire you? Barbara 43:13 You know there's so many I have trouble like narrow. But I did come up with a few Bodi dot p adventure cat on Instagram, Wolf, underscore the underscore cat venturer. It's another one. Lewis underscore Clark underscore s explore cats is another good one. And believe it or not, there is a maverick, the adventure cat. Which I thought was funny because this cat is like a mini Maverick. And he lives in San Francisco, which is an hour from me. So they either stole my name or they need to meet because they're going to be lifelong buddies. I don't know they need to me. Yeah, exactly. Unknown Speaker 43:58 They're both it's San Francisco right? Barbara 44:01 Yeah. Hasara Lay 44:02 Then next Bay Area cat club hike. Barbara 44:05 I know the both Mavericks need to go to that. There's also surfer cat Bev that lives in Southern California. And I feel like all three Mavericks need to me at one point and have like a little Maverick convention. Hasara Lay 44:22 Yes, of course. So what product service or program has been a game changer for Maverick. Barbara 44:29 Um, mainly the cat backpack I got for him other than that, just, you know the normal stuff treats and a good leash and a harness. Daniel Lay 44:41 So Barbara, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a blast. Where can we find you and Maverick online? Barbara 44:46 Well thank you for having me. We are Maverick on Instagram is Maverick tux ma v er IC k t UX and he has his own Cat traveling blog called majestic Maverick calm, I, obviously I'm the one that's blogging my cat isn't you know able to type but I thought it'd be interesting to have the travel blog be written from the cat's perspective to kind of separate it from other travel blogs out there. So it's kind of written from, you know, my human took me here and I got to see these cool kind of places and there's lots of pictures. Hasara Lay 45:31 Awesome. So what we'll do is we'll put those links and any other links from today's episode in the show notes which are available at cat explora.co forward Daniel Lay 45:38 slash podcast. Have you joined us in our Facebook community yet? It's called calibra community it's a place to share your wins. Help each other with our challenges and even organized can explore Hangouts. As always, thank you so much for being a part of the cat explorer community. That's it for today. We'll catch you next time. In the meantime, enjoy give me a kitty the world