Jackson Galaxy (aka The Cat Daddy) is the host of My Cat from Hell, a 2 times New York bestselling author and an all-round advocate for cats. He shares his thoughts on the fundamentals of training our cats, exploring with them and the impact of seeing cats through dog coloured glasses.

What we talk about

• What is Cat Mojo & Raw Cat [2.33]

• Difference between a cat cave vs a cocoon [3.43]

• How to tell if your cat is using their backpack or stroller as a cave or a cacoon [5.54]

• How to use the challenge line to help our cats if something scary happens during catexploring [7.19]

• Helping our cats through trauma [9.46]

• How to try new catexploring activities [11.12]

• How to recognise a healthy challenge vs a stressful challenge [14.02]

• How to tell if our cats are enjoying themselves [17.48]

• How humans can move our own internal challenge line to help our cats [19.05]

• What to do if your cat is too confident while catexploring [21.10]

• Managing separation anxiety in cats [24.38]

• How to calm our cats down when they become stressed [30.41]

• Is there a thing as too much enrichment [33.35]

• Looking at cats through dog coloured glasses [36.41]

• Jackson’s thoughts on the catexploring movement [39.36]

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Guest – Jackson Galaxy

Instagram – @thecatdaddy

Facebook – Jackson Galaxy

Youtube – Jackson Galaxy

TV show – My Cat from Hell

Books

Total Cat Mojo: The Ultimate Guide to Life with Your Cat

Upcoming events

Total Cat Mojo Live Tour

Cat Camp – June 6-7 2020

Cat Lovers Show - November 2020

Podcast Sponsor – Wee Kitty Eco Plant Litter by Rufus & Coco

The NEW Wee Kitty Eco Plant by Rufus & Coco is made from sustainable and naturally absorbent wheat and soy fibers. It's the natural litter for cats who care and the humans who love them. Reduce your carbon pawprint and make the switch - Head to https://www.weekittylitter.com to find a store near and for your chance to win a year's supply of kitty litter!

Music

Music for this episode was composed and performed by Kory McIntyre.

Cover art

The photo used for the cover art for Season 5 of Catexplorer Podcast is of @thegibsonchronicles

Transcript

Please note - this an automatic transcript, and as such may not be very accurate.

Jackson Galaxy 0:00

Difference between us and animals is that we have talked therapy, we were able to say to another human, I'm scared of this. And they would say, Why are you scared and then you can explore why is a rational or irrational fear and start working through it with animals. We have to show by example, we have to lead and we have to make sure that every experience is a positive one. Hasara Lay 0:25 Join us as we chat to amazing cat explorers and experts, learn from them, listen to their war stories, celebrate the wins, and laugh at the funny moments that have been a part of the journey. Welcome to the cat explorer podcast. I'm Hasara got a really exciting chat in store for you today. But before we jump in, we would love it if you could screenshot this episode on your phone or take a photo of what you're doing share to Instagram stories and tag us at cat explorer.com you And our awesome guests at the Cat Daddy and we'll share it in our stories. This episode is brought to you by the new weekly eco plant litter. The new weekly eco plant by Rufus and kircher is made from sustainable and naturally absorbent wheat and soy fibers is the National linna for cats who care and the humans who love them, reduce your carbon footprint and make the switch head to www wickety.com to find a store near you and for your chance to win a year supply of kitty litter. Today's guest probably doesn't need an introduction. Jackson galaxy also known as the Cat Daddy is an animal advocate cat behavior and wellness expert, a two time New York Times bestselling author and has more than 25 years experience working with cats and guardians. He's also the host of the TV show my Cat From Hell, and Jackson's list of accolades doesn't even end there. He is an instrumental force with raising awareness about cats looking after them and enriching their lives. It was such a privilege to chat with him and to ask him your questions about cat exploring and cat behavior. Without further ado, here's a chat with Jackson. Hi, Jackson, thank you so much for joining us today really appreciate it. So I think a lot of people come to you with behavioral issues that they're dealing with their cats but I kind of wanted to strip it back to some basics that you cover really well in your books like cat merger and the role cat. So for people who want an in depth understanding, I really recommend they read your book total Cat Mojo, Jackson Galaxy 2:33 but do you mind giving us an explanation of what Cat Mojo is? Mojo is, you know, when we talk about human Mojo, and we talked about any Mojo with that idea of just just this, this really deep confidence, it's not cockiness, it's just, it's it's that those moments in your life where you're like, I know who I am, I know why I am. I know why I where I who I you know, all that everything just sort of bubbles to the top and I that confidence when it comes to cats all comes from one place. And that's being in touch with who they are in the most, you know, primitive way. And that's who I call the Roccat. So all of my sort of advice that I give folks is to get back to the Roccat to the best of your abilities. And when you do, you will see your cat sort of, you know, become Mojo FIDE it they will get more confidence than they've had. It brings out the scaredy cats. It tones down the the ones that I call the Napoleon cats, the over owners, the ones who you know, wreak havoc everywhere. It's just a great sort of middle place of confidence for kids. Hasara Lay 3:43 Hmm, definitely. And it's something that I really feel we our lumos is very in Napoleon cat. So we're trying to turn him down a little bit and make him happy that way as well. So another thing that I love is that you define places as a cave versus a cocoon for our cat. Can you explain the difference between the two. Jackson Galaxy 4:02 You know, so cats that call cavers those are the ones that you know, they find their piece so to speak, in in becoming small and invisible so those are closet Cats Under the bed cats on top of the fridge cats, it's they're not going to those places to to show confidence, they're going to disappear because they have done and the difference between a cave in a cocoon. So your closet is a cave, they choose that place. And they choose it because no one's gonna bug them there and they feel you know, hidden. We get to use that desire on their part to cave and choose more positive outlets for it. So the cocoon would be the reason I use the word is because they can hide in it. They can feel protected and small, but it's a place of metamorphosis. It's a place where We can take it for instance, you know, their beds on the market that are sort of the will cover their top their little cocoons. And that instead of being in the closet, you started by being right outside the closet and shutting the closet door, slowly over time you bring that cocoon farther into the mix in terms of the family social dynamic, to the point where you're asking them to be near the couch, put it on the couch, you know, that kind of thing, where we're pushing their, what I call the challenge line, we're pushing their challenge line without them really even knowing it. But we're getting them to that point where they're becoming more social while still being able to to hide a little bit. If the difference between a cave and a cocoon. You have the power. You can say, you know, it's okay for you to feel this way. But it's not okay for you to disappear. Hasara Lay 5:54 That's so interesting. I really liked that analogy. So, most cat explorers they use A cat backpack our stroller as a size space while they're out and about how do we tell if our cats using it as a cave or a cocoon? And should we be concerned if they're using it as a cave? Well, by its nature, Jackson Galaxy 6:13 a backpack or a stroller is a cocoon. Because again, you have the power. So if you don't want them, like for instance, in their backpack under the bed, you just make sure that it's in a socially significant area and bam, cocoon. And you know, that's the thing you shouldn't worry about it. You should be worried. If your cat's under the bed In fact, it's it's just one of my really big talking slash nagging points to cat guardians. If you have a cat, I would really love it. If you reconsider having an under to your bed, either getting a platform bed, or just blocking off the unders of your bed. There shouldn't be any unders. There's no reason for it. When you have backpacks when you have carriers when you have beds when you have cocoons. There's nobody reason to have something that not only not productive, but in cases of emergency and things like that you will never be able to get your cat out, you know, and and it's just dangerous. So yeah, I mean, I wouldn't worry about backpacks or strollers, carriers, those are all productive places. Hasara Lay 7:19 That's awesome to hear. And I really like how you say that it's up to us really, in terms of how we help them use those products as well. So that's great to hear. And you briefly mentioned the challenge line, and you explained the challenge line really well in your book as well. But I'd like to apply it to cat exploring. So sometimes when we're out and about, our cats might face a sad and scary experience, no matter how hard we try to stop that from happening. For example, they might get scared of a dog that just appears out of nowhere. I'll get startled by a loud noise. How do we use the concept of the challenge line to bring up our cats competence and give them that merger and not have a negative association for that location? Jackson Galaxy 8:00 It's a great question. And it's not the easiest thing in the world. Because when things that happen that are out of your control to a certain degree, you can't, I mean, obviously, you can't stop a traumatic event from happening. How you we expose them is to have positive things happen in that location. So it's going back, you know, just retracing your steps to that area to that kind of feeling of stimulation, and having positive things happen there, whether that's getting out and walking, and just going back and forth a little bit, taking a few steps out of their cocoon. And just, you know, the thing about a challenge line is, you as a parent have to know the difference between what is one Paul over the line and what is just checking them in an ice bath, you know, because you're never going to get where you want to go. If challenge fears that feels fearful. So you know, you got to be okay with you know if your cat was used to being out and about All of a sudden they're traumatized. It's okay for them to take two steps out, it's okay for them to have a moment of popping their head out of the backpack. And looking out with confidence, giving them a treat after that, and praising, it's okay. You know, because you're using basically a form of exposure therapy, someone's afraid of flying, you're not going to just throw them in a plane and hope for the best. You're going to take them to the airport, you're going to have positive things happen at the airport, you're going to just have them watch planes or get online and get off again, you know, it's, it's, it's a matter of patience. It's a matter of doing things step by step and not expecting them to just, quote get over it. Hasara Lay 9:46 That's not sure. And for example, if something traumatic happened to us as humans, we wouldn't just get over it as well as I suppose Exactly. You Jackson Galaxy 9:53 know, and the difference between us and animals is that we have talked therapy, we were able to say to another Human, I'm scared of this. And they would say, Why are you scared, and then you can explore why is a rational or irrational fear and start working through it with animals, we have to show by example, we have to lead and we have to make sure that every experience is a positive one. You know, one of the examples I use is when we're talking about cats being comfortable in their carriers. And you're trying to get them to say, okay, that the carriers a positive place. But the only time they ever get in the carrier is when they're going to the vet, how the hell are you going to do that? You know, you've got to make sure that when you put them in the carrier, nine times out of 10, they're either getting their favorite treats in there, we're turning it into somewhat of a game, we're covering it so the cavor feel safe in there becomes a destination. And then every once in a while, we go on a trip, and maybe that's just getting in the car and driving on the block a few times coming back and having their favorite thing happen again, just know that if the stimulation is a negative one. Whether human cat possum doesn't matter, man, they're going to dislike it and avoid it. Hasara Lay 11:12 Yeah, that's so true. I am. I really relate to that. And so sometimes we noticed that our cats enjoy certain activities. What are your recommendations for stepping across the challenge line if you're trying something new, like hiking or going up on a stand up paddleboard with your cat or even like biking or things like that, Jackson Galaxy 11:31 it's so funny because you're like, how do I make a stand up paddleboard fun from it? I don't have any idea sorry. I mean, I I don't get me on a stand up paddle. You know, we Yeah, that's, that's that's a personal thing. And you know what the one of the things I think it's really important for anyone who wants to explore with their cat is respect the cat. I mean, there are cats who just don't want to do it. And that's okay. It's okay. Not to You know, it's like growing up, my mom was like, I sure would love for you to be a doctor, like, well, but ain't no. I would rather pick up my guitar and play, you have to whatever it is that boosts your cat's Mojo. You go there, you know. So, you know, like, for instance, I can think of one cat in my home right now, Mowgli who he is. He is an explorer cat. He is the guy who's first in line to try something new. And if it's a bad thing, then I'll let you know, but he'll probably try it again. I have other cats who just I celebrate when someone new comes into the home and they don't hide, you know, it's it's, it's a very individual thing. But again, you know, my sort of hypothetical, if we were talking about for instance, a stand up paddleboard is get them to associate the board itself with positive things. So have the board in your house. Again, we use the things that we know, make cats happy. So whether that's play, where their food motivated, have those things happen near or around that board and do things like, you know, put a blanket on the board that smells like you and smells like them. It's a favorite place one of their little sort of soft beds, things like that's what's in the house, it becomes a place a thing that is associated with destination as opposed to avoidance so that when it's out in the world, it actually becomes that place where they're attracted to it as opposed to it just becomes a part of that unfamiliar world that that they could be skeptical and Hasara Lay 13:45 I really like that and I think that's the same with a lot of different things that we try and encourage our cats to get used to, like you said the carrier as well even their backpacks, their strollers and and like I know a lot of people in our community are looking at using their bikes with a special biking basket for the Cat. So that's something that you can do with that as well. Yeah. Jackson Galaxy 14:02 So how do you recognize if you're taking your cat on a healthy challenge versus a stressful challenge? You look for, you know, just sort of the universal language of stress. I mean, shaking, panting, you know, constant lick, lick, lick, lick, lick, lick licking. Lip licking is sort of a universal, like I'm stressed, I'm not feeling comfortable, dilated pupils, making themselves flat to the ground. These are things you know, think about the Roccat again, right? So think about a cat in the wild as that animal who was always being pushed by their DNA to go out there and hunt, but at the same time, they're smack in the middle of the food chain. So they're always thinking that a threat is around the corner. So with that in mind, what does that look like when they feel threatened when their fight or flight is triggered? Well, again, we have saucer eyes because they're trying to expand their peripheral vision because there could be a threat anywhere. ears are either turning constantly to try to measure what's going on in the air, or they're flat down expecting a fight. There, their reflexes just are in high gear, their tails are just wagging or twitching wildly. You know you as that cats Guardian, no, you know, it's not what all cats experiences, what your cat experiences, and you would know what that looks like. And you know, when it's time to back it up a few steps when you know, instead of for instance, again, the act of putting on a harness on one of your cats causes them to just go flat to the ground and you can't get them to move. Or even worse, one step. They're just constantly trying to back out of it. That means he went too fast. So now your next goal is just harness on trees. Treat harness off sound of the harness opening, you know, you can go that far back, presenting it to them putting it on the ground next to them. Treat treat pet pet Love, love. Just you, you know, that's what the challenge line is a term that is not universally applied to everybody. Everybody has their own speed of exposure that that they're going to deal with. And that's the thing. I mean, if you want to take your cat out in a backpack, let's say, and you've now tried it five different ways, and your kids avoiding that thing. They don't want to go anywhere near it. The second they get near the front door, they pant, call it a day. Your cat doesn't want to go and it's okay. Because I'm sure there's another cat that you have that does want to go or you know, adopt a new cat. Yeah, that's more have for you know, that's I guess what I'm saying on that one? Hasara Lay 16:57 Yeah, I agree and each cat is so different. I think I've got to and their challenge lines are so different. So lumos would, he constantly wants to go see people, whereas noxee is a bit shy. So we just keep that in mind when we're exploring as well. So it's really interesting you say that? Jackson Galaxy 17:13 Yeah, I mean, I think that, look, look at the difference between me and my brother, my brother would rather get, you know, root canal than to go out on stage. I, that's where I love to be. That's and we had the same experiences growing up, same parents, same home, and this is who we are. And the goal is parents is to bring out the best in the individual as opposed to trying to, you know, put them in the same, you know, adventure shaped box, you know, or backpack. Hasara Lay 17:48 Exactly. You've mentioned a lot about how we can identify if something's being a stressful challenge for our cats by looking at body language. Do you mind touching on what good signs of body language are We know that our cats enjoying themselves. Jackson Galaxy 18:02 Well, I mean, the opposite of what I just described moving forward, moving forward. I am, I am moving towards a challenge. I am wanting to explore it. I'm wanting to smell it. I'm wanting to hear it better. I'm trying to touch it to see if it's gonna move I you know, it's when curiosity is stronger than apprehension. That's a pretty clear, a pretty clear line. For instance, when we think about a really scared cat, like, you know, I spent 20 years working in animal shelters. And the first thing that I would look at with a cat is, well, if I present them with something nice and stinky, are they even going to engage that sense where they'll smell it? And if they're really scared, they won't even do that? They won't, they won't employ their sense of smell, they won't. They are just shut down. And that's I mean, from a stress standpoint, that's up editing. You know, I can eight the thing that you look for in a cat who wants to explore is the Who wants to find out more? I want to find out more about you. I want to investigate you. That's a great sign. Hasara Lay 19:05 That's a really good point. One thing you've said previously that's really stood out to me was your cats challenge line is also your challenge line. Do you have any recommendations on how we as humans can help move our own internal challenge line so it doesn't hinder our cats? Jackson Galaxy 19:22 Yeah, it's it's really, you know, let's let's go back to the under the bed thing, that there is that sort of parenting with where comfort overtakes challenge, All I care about is that you feel comfortable with me and not remembering that constant comfort is just as detrimental as constant challenge. Constant comfort means I will never discover new things I will never find out. There are new sensations that feel good to me. I will just always hide and if we think that our cats are just going to Come out from under the bed all by themselves with no enticement with no, with no challenge involved, then I think we're, you know, deluding ourselves. So I think it's important to remember that even though it feels painful to you, as someone who loves your cat, it's, it's not beneficial to them to just stay in the same place their whole life, you know, putting if your cat chooses to be in the closet. And what you do is you put nice cushy beds in the closet, you put a litter box in the closet, you see what I'm talking about, all you're doing then is guaranteeing that your cat will spend their lives scared of anything outside the closet, and that is a reflection on us. So it's not easy challenge doesn't ever feel easy, whether you're a cat or human. So we just always have to explore our Our own motivations or fears are our own biases, and not assume that the first thought is the right one. You know, Hasara Lay 21:10 that's so very true. I kind of want to flip it a little bit. So we've had like, personally, we've had situations where we've gone these we travel a lot with our cats, we've gone to a new Airbnb, and they're quite confident when it comes to jumping and exploring, and sometimes we get worried that it's a bit unsafe. So they'll jump really high on top of a cupboard or things like that. I don't want to say how do we reduce their confidence because it's great that they have the confidence but how do we manage that? Jackson Galaxy 21:37 I mean, I think you know, when you first let's say, you're going to new Airbnb, that before you let your guys out of their carrier or backpack or stroller or whatever, that you guys do a, you know, you just case the joint that you know, you go around it, you go okay, I really don't think they should be up on this thing or they shouldn't Be over here. And then there are ways to just sort of block it. You know, there's ways to just, you know, say, Yeah, I don't want you to get up here. So for instance, one of the things that you could take with you, there are just aerosol can size air that have little sensors on them. So if a cat walks by them, they just sort of puff a little bit of air at them. So you don't want them to get in the top of the console of the cupboard. You take a look at the only way they can get up to the top of that cupboard is only a certain amount of ways they can get there. And on the top of that cupboard, you put that little air canister, they jump up there once it's going to go puff they're going to be like net there's much better places for me to be and they'll go there that you know, I would definitely whenever you go into a new place. Think about take a look around below you especially and see where can your cat disappear into. I mean, I have had clients cats, who somehow got into the drywall suddenly they're trapped in a wall. You know, if a cat is scared, do not underestimate where they're going to get into, they can squeeze into places that they can't get out and you can't get in. So like I said, Go through the place, identify those spots of unacceptable challenge for you guys, and do what you can to block it off. Hasara Lay 23:19 Yeah, that's a great point. And from personal experience, I also recommend people look at breakables and plants as well. So I say if you can move those trophies Jackson Galaxy 23:28 By the way, I mean, I'm sorry that that the list of plants that are toxic to cats is longer than your arm, you would be shocked at how many plants are toxic and foods and I mean, there are it's always good to travel with that list and know what you're exposing them to because that's a bad surprise on a trip to wind up in a in a place that you're not familiar with. Trying to find that, you know, because your cat just ate something. Hasara Lay 23:58 Yeah, definitely. And also one I recent experiences, we walked into a place and that himalayan salt lamps, so we had to remove those straight away. We didn't see that in the listing, but those are also toxic to cats. So just keep an eye out for those kind of things. Jackson Galaxy 24:11 I mean, definitely, you know, one of the things that folks don't realize is that essential oils are toxic to cats that they can't come in contact with them. So it's one of those things that even though it helps to make a room smell better, or it's just just those things are just they're just doing a little bit of due diligence is a really important thing. Especially if, like you guys, you spend a lot of time in new unfamiliar terrain, Hasara Lay 24:38 huh? Yeah, exactly. That's I'm really important as well. Another thing that a few members of our community really wanted to understand about is is separation anxiety and cats a thing and had you assist a cat who's either really attached to the siblings or to you to the humans? Jackson Galaxy 24:54 That's a great question. Yes, separation anxiety is absolutely a thing in cats. Yeah. is usually manifested differently than the symptoms we would see in dogs, for instance, in dogs, within the first 15 minutes of you leaving, they will destroy the place or hurt themselves. It's that immediate, you're gone, they get it, you're gone. And they go bananas, which is why of course we you know, with with dogs like that we create train them to give them a den to give them a place where they feel safe. One of the things that I and this is off to the side a little bit that I don't think folks realize is that crate training, not the exact techniques but great training works for cats very well as well. So giving them a place where it's almost like a little Panic Room for them or what I call base camp is a really positive thing for them. If you've got a cat who freaks whenever you leave the house when they're separated, then I think one of the misconceptions is giving them the same free rein of the house. They always would have the larger the territory The larger the the chance for anxiety. So and I've got videos on this and it's also in the book is the concept of Basecamp and Basecamp is a great thing to have for anybody. Now for instance, here's this is a good thing for a cat who's going out exploring as well. The thing about base camp that makes it so wonderful is that in a specific room and it could be your bedroom or whatever, but like when you first adopt a cat, you bring them to the house you fill it with the things that I call sense soakers since soakers are soft beds, they are cat trees, they are blankets, they are anything where they can sit on it, rolling it, sleep on it, and it retains their scent. The thing is that when you have that base camp, then all of the the the components in that camp those beds, those bowls, litter boxes are a big One, you can actually bring little pieces of those things with you. So that when you go into another room somewhere, when you bring them someplace, immediately they smell those things and go, yeah, Basecamp I'm good. You know, a good example is when I travel, I remember when I started traveling a lot for work, and, you know, for the most part, I'm gone. I don't know, usually half the year. And at first, you know, I was getting horribly homesick, and a lot of people will say, yeah, you know, make sure just travel with pictures of your family, things like that. A friend of mine who does as much traveling as I did, so no, bring up your pillow, or your towel, your bath towel. And the second I did that, I had home with me, the smell, the feel, the touch of it. It all said home to me, you know, and I think the cats are the same way. So that's one thing about separation anxiety now, in terms of being separated from their siblings and being taken out of the house to a point where they're always anxious because that new place doesn't have the beings in it that give them their sort of proxy Mojo. That begins to be something that you really need to step back and start looking about how you can ease that separation out. That's the Kathy, you just don't want to take on the trip right away. You want to take short short trips, you want to go out in the car for 20 minutes and come on back and reunite them. Let them know that every time they leave the house, they're going to come back, they're coming back and they're going to see everybody who makes them feel comfortable. That is a challenge land thing. And that tells you really, when it's just a matter of we're taking them on a trip and because they're not with cat A, B and C, they feel lost in the world that's understandable in certain personalities. And it lets you know that You may have overstepped that line. Hasara Lay 29:03 That's so interesting. And then I suppose it works the other way around, if you've got a cat that's at home and is missing, the cat that's gone out is that you slowly extend that time and show them that that other cat will come home and they will be okay as well. Jackson Galaxy 29:15 Right? That's right. And certain small things that you can do at home with those guys, because a lot of those kind of cats, they they find their safety in numbers, they see that there's somebody else in their group, who was a little more of the go getter, the little more of the, the stronger personality. So they never have to be pushed to that point of independence and strength on their own terms, because they always have that other presence there. So one of the ways that you can right off the bat start getting their own personal Mojo up and running is by separating cats out during playtime, that a lot of times you'll see it happen. You've got those two personalities When you bring out a toy, that one cat gets all the playtime because they're the ones dominating that that prey, they're the ones who are used to doing all the hunting. So take that cat, that real strong one, put them in another room for 20 minutes and get your less confident cat to know what it feels like to, quote, hunt for themselves to feel that, that, that rush of capturing something and and touching their own raw cat. You know, I think that that teaching them a degree of independence and getting them in touch with their sort of Roccat greatness is that first step to separating them from the rest of their group. Hasara Lay 30:41 That's so true. That's great advice. Thank you. So we've kind of touched on this a little bit. But sometimes despite all our efforts, our cats can become stress, especially while we're exploring. Do you have any advice in terms of how we can come on cats down if they do get to that stress point? Jackson Galaxy 30:56 I think that and this is where we come back to base camp. Then if if we have made that association that the backpack is a base base camp, your your, your goal, that's that's where we go. We say okay, this is too much for them. Let's go back to base camp. If their carrier is that place, that's also a great place to just to retreat. This is why I'm talking about the concept of crate training with cats that they still get a feeling of safety by a more contained more controllable little chunk of territory. So I think that's really the best thing to do is to remember that if your cat is feeling that rush of insecurity from the great outdoors, again that's letting us know that we we just moved too quick that we got to back it up and but the first step before you ever go adventuring with your cat is make sure that they feel that sense of of Basecamp of home den in a something that you travel with. So that you can just bring their, their, their pulse level back to normal by the location they're in a couple of other things that you can do if they're really just having sensory overload. One is making sure that you know that if you cover their carrier cover the backpack, just reduce their visual stimulation that for some cats, in fact, I would say more than not will also just let them settle back into their skin a little bit. Another thing I I'm a big believer in, in flower essence therapies. I really you know, with all the talk about CBD these days and how great it is not a believer, when it comes to cats, at least not yet. And we really haven't even a little bit of enough information about how cats respond to CBD or any you know, once we start stepping into medications, anti anxiety medications and things like that. Cats respond to these things in a much more individual way than dogs or even humans. So it's something to really bear in mind. And that's why flower essence therapy, I think works so beautifully because it's just much more gentle, much more holistic. It works on a on an energetic level and not on a physical level. So that's why I mean, I've made my own for years and years. Every client of mine always winds up with at least one that I call stress stopper, which is just a, it's kind of like rescue remedies, that kind of thing, but it works really well. Hasara Lay 33:35 Okay, that's really interesting. I hadn't heard of that before. So we'll be definitely diving into some research after this for that. So a whole big thing for us and our community is that we focus on enriching our cats lives. But do you think there's a point where we can do too much enrichment or were with overstimulating them? Jackson Galaxy 33:56 Again, that is an individual question. I mean, I personally can't think of too much enrichment. I can think of it all coming at the same time too much. So they become overstimulated. But there's also ways to, again, like I've been describing, bring them back into their skin a little bit. So, the thing about cats is that the concept of a sympathetic nervous system, if they experience one degree of fear, that isn't just something that's contained in their mind like us, we can go man, I am scared of what's in that closet. I don't know. I'm just pulling that out of my neck. But you know, I'm scared of what's in that closet. And then our, our mind starts taking that apart, what could possibly be in that closet, no monsters in the closet, you know, that kind of thing. And then we find the nerve to open up the closet door and look inside. Cats when they when they have that rush of unsafety it goes right to their body, and that's what keeps them alive in the wild. So every nerve ending then becomes on guard, every every muscle tenses up, ready to go into fight or flight. And so bringing them back down to the present sort of calm moment, a lot of time comes to reducing the amount of stimulation in their environment which is why I was talking about you can darken the room a little bit you can reduce the amount of visual and oral stimulation and that's a great thing to do. Now, one of the other things I and and like anyone who's watched my show for any length of time, knows that half of what I talk about is playing with your cat. And I think because the word is play, folks think of it is like a luxury or or just a fun little something. It's it's integral, because if you want to get a cat, to feel their Mojo to feel like themselves and to feel like their feeder under them, you remind them about the Roccat way to do that is with an interesting Boy, where you're using, you know, those fishing pole toys and something like that, where you're acting like prey, they catch the prey, they kill the prey, then they come up from doing that. And they go, that's right. I know who I am. There's my mojo. So bring back down to the Roccat is always a positive thing is always a way to not just reduce simulation, we've talked about that. But to bring them up to the challenge to bring them up to that place where they go, you know what, I can do anything I want. That's by bringing them back to to the Roccat. Hmm, Hasara Lay 36:32 that's so true. I completely agree with that. So something you said in your book that I just had an aha moment with it as well is Jackson Galaxy 36:41 you said we look at cats through dog colored glasses. And in the cat explorer community, especially when new cat explores this happens so much because cats don't walk on a leash like a dog and they're probably not going to run into the oceans at the beach like a dog or run into a river. So that line was just so impactful for me and it's it's what I Trying to say to people all the time so thank you so much for putting it so succinctly. You know what it's my pleasure. Let me tell you something that talk about you know, one of my soap boxes, I feel like most of the the biases against cats most of the frustration that humans feel with cats, the disconnect emotionally they feel with cats are all because of that. It's all because we we say wait a minute, if you're going to show me that you love me, you're going to wag your tail and lick me you're going to give me those big moon eyes and look at me like I'm the king of the world. And cats. The there is no reason we should expect that out of another species. They are not only they're just another species there, they have a completely divergent experience through time. Then dogs do with dogs. We brought them to this point, we brought them to this point we bred them to be at this point. We bred them to be our Quote friends and work for us and, and and look for our approval and our love. We never did that with cats until very recently, like in the last maybe hundred plus years that have their 10,000 years with us. And that once you realize that that's a completely unreasonable request, and that they deserve the dignity of being viewed as their own thing, then we think about that, why isn't my cat walking on a leash? Because cats aren't made to walk on leashes. It's a brand new experience for them, as it should be for you. I joke around a lot about how it you know, with dogs, it's all about exerting you know, leadership. It's all about you know, all of your leash techniques. with cats. It's like you know, by and large, forget about your cats walk in you. And if that means they're going to sit and and sniff a bush for 10 minutes and focusing on a little bug that's underneath. Bush, that's good for them. It's not fun, really for you, but it's good for them. You know, and I think the thing about dogs is that we don't expect, I don't know, we don't expect compromise with them. We expect them to come to our side of the communicative fence. And with cats, if you want to have a good relationship with them a rewarding and rich relationship with them, you have to meet them in the middle, you have to compromise. And that's not easy for humans, especially when it comes to animals. Hasara Lay 39:36 Yeah, yeah, I just want to yell out Yes, but then that the audio might be a bit funny. But I completely agree with what you're saying. You're so spot on. So what are your thoughts on the cat exploring room and it's grown so significantly in the last few years, I remember when I was doing it as a child, I thought I was the only one doing it in the world. And I was that weird kid in the neighborhood. But now because of the Rising Sun Media, we see so much of it. So what are your thoughts about it? Jackson Galaxy 40:03 I love it. I love it. I mean, listen, that having been in the animal welfare movement for, like I said 25 years and seeing the dangers that have just gotten worse and worse and worse and worse over the years, as we become more industrialized and urbanized with our cats, were letting them out is, you know, you're always playing Russian roulette if you just let your cat out the door. And everyone would always say, but, you know, Jackson, we're then turning them into what they're not and we're making them miserable, etc, etc, which I don't believe I think we can really enrich our cats lives to a very large degree in our homes. But now that there is this sort of accepted outlet to train your cats to harness and bam, you're out there in the world and you're exposing them to new things and you're giving them that that incredible Roccat exposure to the world. I can't think of anything better. I think the rise in cat adventuring and The rise in building caddos for our cats and, and and fencing in our yard, so they can go out there safely has really bridged that gap in terms of what we used to think was just being, you know, not fair to them at all. So I think it's been a huge, huge step forward. Hasara Lay 41:21 Yeah, I agree so much, we've come such a long way in the last few years. It's incredible to say, Jackson Galaxy 41:26 I mean, you know, again, it's so much about the, I accept who you are, as an animal, I accept your basic needs as an animal. And I will do what I can to make you feel a part of my world. And that's what all the above has to do with whether it's environmental enrichment, or whether it's just enrichment in the form of taking them out in the world. These are ways of saying, I get it, I get who you are. I get that you're not a dog. And I get, I get you, I get you and I can't tell you How happy that makes me as somebody who does this job. It how happy it makes me. I get you, you know is is three of the biggest words that have ever come out of a human's mouth when it comes to cats. Hasara Lay 42:13 You can't see it but I'm grinning so hot at the moment. Good. So Jackson, thank you so much for making the time to be in the cat explorer podcast. We really do appreciate it. I'm aware that you've got some really exciting stuff coming up at the moment. So I like things like cat campaign title Cat Mojo live. Do you want to tell us a little bit about them? Jackson Galaxy 42:32 Yeah, I mean, we are. All the things that we've been talking about today are sort of encapsulated in both the book total Cat Mojo and also total Cat Mojo live, which is it? Well, it's hard to explain but it's it's a very entertaining show, if I do say so myself. It's more of a one man show than it is, you know, a lecture on anything. And it involves everything from me playing music to it. interaction with puppets and animations and big screen fun it's it's just a lot of fun and that we have touring around the United States. Really just going to my website Jackson galaxy calm, you will find out where the next stop is going to be. We've got some coming up in later on in the spring and through the fall. The other thing of course, is cat camp cat camp. Every year we put that on in New York City. And it is a gathering of the cat tribe. And we have a lot of fun. We have classes and talks and and really also ways for people to feel empowered in their own community. What can you do in your community to enrich the lives of all cats, not just the ones in your house, but all of them. So that's happening in New York first weekend in June, and we are also going to be in another location later on in the summer. I'm not gonna tell you where that is quite yet. But within the next couple of weeks, we'll be announcing our second cat camp location. Hasara Lay 44:04 How exciting. And as an Australian, I'm really excited that you're coming to the cat lovers show in Melbourne in November this year as well. So cat explorer will be there as well. So a really good idea there. Yes, we're gonna be there. Yeah, we also to me, Jackson Galaxy 44:18 I've, you know, I've been to Australia twice before and only to Sydney. And I love being there so much. I can't wait. I cannot wait. It's gonna be a great time. Hasara Lay 44:31 And the catalog show is amazing in that normally when I ask people, if they parnas train, they can only get about 2% who say yes, but last year at the cat lava show I had 99% of the people say yes. Which just blew me away. Jackson Galaxy 44:44 That's amazing. That's amazing. And it just show you how fast we're we're maturing and progressing. As as people who love their cats, we're willing to do things for them. And that's just man. That's a good feeling. Hasara Lay 44:56 Yeah, it's a good feeling. It's so lovely to say the culture Shifting that way as well. It's just been incredible. Jackson Galaxy 45:03 What can't wait to get there. Really? It's gonna be fantastic. Hasara Lay 45:06 Yeah, it really will be. So Jackson, thank you so much for your time today really do appreciate it and everyone, what I'll do is I'll put links to all those things that we mentioned today and the books and everything in our show notes as well. Wonderful. Jackson Galaxy 45:19 Thank you so much, sir. It's been my pleasure to thank you. Hasara Lay 45:22 Gosh, what an amazing chat. I've learned so much from chatting to Jackson. If you haven't had the chance yet. I really recommend reading Jackson's book title cat major. I've been rereading it and getting so much from it. Again. I'll include links to that and the other things we spoken about in this episode in the show notes which are available at CAD explorer.com forward slash podcast. I'd love to hear your takeaways from this episode. So take a screenshot of this podcast or photo of what you're doing and share it to Instagram Stories tag cat explorer at cat explorer community and Jackson at the Cat Daddy and share what you've learned. And if you're new to the cat explorer podcast welcome each episode we chat to category Our cat expert like Jackson, and if you liked today's chat, perhaps you'll enjoy our q&a with the wonderful Julie from cat school, we answered all your questions about cat training and cat exploring. Just scroll down in your podcasting app to the episode titled How to Train Your cat and your most frequently asked questions with cat school. Thank you so much for being a part of the cat explorer community. That's it for today. We'll catch you next time. In the meantime, enjoy giving up the world